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Old 18-02-2022, 15:18   #16
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

I fly my ensign anytime I’m on board and all through the night
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Old 18-02-2022, 15:37   #17
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

Thank you. That's very helpful. I don't see the US Navy being particularly concerned with my welfare either.
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Old 18-02-2022, 16:10   #18
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

If you are on 'the high seas' ie 'on passage' and there is no other ship in sight what is the point of flying your ensign?

If a frog pharts in the amazon and nobody hears it did it really phart?

If approached by any official looking boat then simply hoist your ensign.


Many many years ago when I worked for one of the premier British liner companies we did not fly an ensign at sea except when passing another company ship.
In port flags would go up at 0800 and and all - including the ensign - would come down at sunset.
If there were two or more company ships in port the 2/0 on the senior ship would tell the others when sunset was.
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Old 18-02-2022, 23:12   #19
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

The flag of the country the vessel registered, is flown during the day and may be taken down at night, however it is usually dropped the raised in recognition of a countries naval vessels, the courtesy flag of the countries waters are also flown usually from the mainmast, however this practise is not followed by BC Ferries when in US waters??? but Washington States Ferries always raises the Canadian flag when in Canadian waters, go figure!
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Old 19-02-2022, 00:42   #20
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
If you are on 'the high seas' ie 'on passage' and there is no other ship in sight what is the point of flying your ensign?
There's a wedding band argument in there!

1) It has and exhibits some meaning for the wearer himself/herself;
2) It's pretty to look at; and
3) It's a good storage place (well, this may be more true for the wedding band)

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Old 19-02-2022, 02:02   #21
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
If you are on 'the high seas' ie 'on passage' and there is no other ship in sight what is the point of flying your ensign?
Just supposing you were on passage in the international waters within coo-ee of Australia, then you might find it worth flying your ensign just in case:

[1] one of Australia's mighty fleet of nuclear submarines - the fleet that makes the PLA Navy of the PRC tremble - were to observe you at periscope depth;

[2] one of the Coastwatch planes were to overfly you and take (as they do) photos.
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Old 19-02-2022, 02:24   #22
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
If you are on 'the high seas' ie 'on passage' and there is no other ship in sight what is the point of flying your ensign?

If a frog pharts in the amazon and nobody hears it did it really phart?

If approached by any official looking boat then simply hoist your ensign.


Many many years ago when I worked for one of the premier British liner companies we did not fly an ensign at sea except when passing another company ship.
In port flags would go up at 0800 and and all - including the ensign - would come down at sunset.
If there were two or more company ships in port the 2/0 on the senior ship would tell the others when sunset was.
I wear it all the time on passage. I’ve been checked out by jets , etc. So I always think it’s a good idea to wear it 24/7. Modern cloth doesn’t disintegrate like 1700s fabric. I replace my ensign every couple of years to ensure it looks good. When I leave the boat , ie laid up , then it’s removed
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Old 19-02-2022, 03:15   #23
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

An interesting discussion...
It is, I believe, convention not to fly an ensign when racing. Indeed flying the ensign usually denotes you have retired.
I have followed this in UK waters but always wonder about it when arriving in French waters and tend to have it ready in case a patrol boat approaches but they never have so far.
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Old 19-02-2022, 03:22   #24
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pirate Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

I remember back in the 60's when I was serving on HMS Aurora as part of the Gibraltar Squadron.. I was on watch at the bridge as Port lookout when we passed a beautiful 'gentleman's yacht' of around 40ft.
He dipped his ensign in salute and I had to leg it to the stern to dip our ensign in acknowledgement..
That was also the day I determined that one day that would be me sailing up the Strait..
I fly mine 24/7 at sea, in port it comes down at sunset.
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Old 19-02-2022, 03:23   #25
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

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An interesting discussion...
It is, I believe, convention not to fly an ensign when racing. Indeed flying the ensign usually denotes you have retired.
I have followed this in UK waters but always wonder about it when arriving in French waters and tend to have it ready in case a patrol boat approaches but they never have so far.
Racing rules are racing rules.

The French only approach brit boats everyone else they ignore !
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Old 19-02-2022, 06:03   #26
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

I was told quite emphatically by a senior Immigration Officer in WPB Fl that, as in my case, a Fl. State licensed vessel, that as a Canadian I must fly the Canadian flag:: the vessel takes the Flag of it's Captain". I have done this for 36 years.
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Old 19-02-2022, 06:15   #27
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

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Racing rules are racing rules.

The French only approach brit boats everyone else they ignore !

And Trafalgar was such a long time ago!
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Old 19-02-2022, 07:19   #28
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

I think times have changed a bit with technology, and case law is changing to support that. Broadcasting an AIS signal effectively identifies both the vessel and the flag state, and in a manner that is far more clear than a piece of cloth at the stern or on the leech. And it is “visible” and identifiable 24/7. Cases have already found that an AIS signal is a claim of nationality just as much as a flag/ensign. Even the US drug interdiction efforts have to recognize that claim if it is present, and they tend to make their own rules.
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Old 19-02-2022, 08:09   #29
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
I was told quite emphatically by a senior Immigration Officer in WPB Fl that, as in my case, a Fl. State licensed vessel, that as a Canadian I must fly the Canadian flag:: the vessel takes the Flag of it's Captain". I have done this for 36 years.

A US documented vessel must always fly the US Ensign, regardless of the nationality of the "captain." It is ownership that determines vessel flag state, and US documented vessels can only be owned by US citizens.

However, US flag laws are not explicit. For example, in 1914 SCOTUS ruled in the Billings v. United States case that "A yacht belonging to a citizen of the United States, even though not a vessel of the United States in the sense that it is entitled to registry or enrollment, yet flies the American flag, and is the object of peculiar protection by the United States" (232 U.S. 261).

However, some countries do have very explicit rules for flying ensigns and curtesy flags, and you should consult the rules and regs for countries prior to visit.
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Old 19-02-2022, 12:19   #30
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Re: Must a Ship on the High Seas Fly the Flag of a State

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
Just supposing you were on passage in the international waters within coo-ee of Australia, then you might find it worth flying your ensign just in case:

[1] one of Australia's mighty fleet of nuclear submarines - the fleet that makes the PLA Navy of the PRC tremble - were to observe you at periscope depth;

[2] one of the Coastwatch planes were to overfly you and take (as they do) photos.
Overflown twice both pre AIS. Once by a Surveillance Australia Westwind SeaScan between Sunda and Christmas which came up from astern very very low and gave me quite a start. Had a nice chat on VHF with them.
The other time was west of the Chathams. An RNZAF Orion. Same same the chat with them on VHF - got a weather forecast and they phoned ahead and told the policeman at Waitangi that we were on our way.

In neither case did our unflown ensign get mentioned nor were we thrown in the slammer on arrival.
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