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Old 12-03-2018, 00:11   #1
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Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

Hello, I have long considered a suitable vessel for shorthanded long range voyaging, I have considered purely powered passagemaker for a while, but cost, problem of stabilization and maintenance makes me reconsider motorsailer.

I would definitely like to have a larger fuel capacity than regular sailboat for better scheduling, overall speed at voyage and shoal draft.

Initially I am considering the Puffin design by Ted Brewer in aluminum for ease of maintenence:
Ted Brewer Yacht Design

But as I found that I can build in one off fiberglass for pretty much similar price as aluminum, I also consider an older motorsailer design by Jay Benford:
http://www.benford.us/pdf/Motorsailer.pdf

Both would have similar displacement, and hence similar build cost, the Puffin would be a better sailer at 14.22 of SA/D, but the Benford design have a fuel capacity of 600 galloms, 2.6 times the size of Puffin.
6 inch more of draft in the Benford design is negligible.

The question I like to ask and opinion I am seeking is that between a more power oriented and a more sail oriented motorsailer which one would be better as a shorthanded voyaging vessel?
Which design would you prefer and why?

Thank you
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Old 12-03-2018, 00:26   #2
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

You can always consider a real Puffin.

Puffin®*is a registered trademark by Olivier *van Meer Design BV. Ever since the first boat in this range was launched in 1994, this totally new concept has been an inspiration to many designers and yards.*
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Old 12-03-2018, 00:37   #3
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

interesting thread
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Old 12-03-2018, 00:42   #4
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolor View Post
You can always consider a real Puffin.

Puffin®*is a registered trademark by Olivier *van Meer Design BV. Ever since the first boat in this range was launched in 1994, this totally new concept has been an inspiration to many designers and yards.*
I have looked at the design, while they are very nice I prefer not to have a centerboard and would wanted to build in my region for reason of cost.
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:18   #5
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

A link that may interest you. / Len
https://www.facebook.com/groups/motorsailers/
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:06   #6
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

Thank you, Deblen. Just feel that I can have a more balanced view here than on a pure motorsailer group.

I should add that the Benford motorsailer is an adaption from a double ended trawler "strumpet", and if the ketch rig is still practical or convenient today, more enclosed but lesser deck space, can probably do more than 2,000 miles under motor alone at 6 knots:
LOA: 35'
LWL: 32'
Beam: 12' 4 1/2''
Draft: 4' 6''
Displacement: 27,900 lbs
Displacement/length: 380
Prismatic coefficient: 0.634
Sail area: 600 sqft
SA/D: 10.44
Water: 200 gallons
Fuel: 600 gallons

Ted told me that I can add 70-100 gallons of fuel capacity at most, there is a cockpit for this design and I slightly prefer the rigging arrangement, but could probably do a little more than 1,000 miles under power alone:
LOA 36'
LWL 33' 11"
Beam 12' 1"
Draft 4' 0"
Sail Area 771 sq. ft.
Displacement 25500 lbs.
Displacement/length 292
SA/D 14.24
Prismatic coefficient 0.53
Water 130 gallons
Fuel 230 gallons (can add 70-100 gallons)

Also antifouling and insulation can be a little more tricky in metal boats?
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:14   #7
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

I prefer the Puffin mainly because it can be beached (like our yacht), I like the extra room you get with the square transom, it would be easier to build than the Benford and it just looks more modern.
The Benford is a sweet looking boat on paper but when I looked at the one for sale in Vancouver she just does not look as sweet in the flesh. Still for 90g she looks ok even if you will spend most of your spare time maintaining the varnish.
Judging by the amount of hours on some yacht engines I survey there is a lot more motorsailing happening than some people want to admit!
Cheers
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:58   #8
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

Your average sailboat is a very efficient motoring platform. If you are building, you could probably up-size the tanks on most designs (within reason) and get a lot of motoring range without going to a dedicated motor-sailor design.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:03   #9
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Your average sailboat is a very efficient motoring platform. If you are building, you could probably up-size the tanks on most designs (within reason) and get a lot of motoring range without going to a dedicated motor-sailor design.
True, but not a lot of them come with a pilot house design, and I would like a draft of say less than 5 foot without getting into centerboard.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:16   #10
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

Nauticat motor sailors also seem to fit your plan.
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:27   #11
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

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Originally Posted by steamgoat View Post
Nauticat motor sailors also seem to fit your plan.
They are the numero uno of production motorsailers, unfortunately at the size that I am looking for have too little fuel carrying capacity, they are quite expensive and hold value well even used to.
I can order build at half or at least 1/3 cheaper for what they are asking new at my region.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:42   #12
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

What is your region, or centered around what port?
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:59   #13
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

You have to draw the line somewhere. Nauticat is the perfect boat for your requirements. If you want to go cheap, my suggestion would be to get a used sailboat and modify it to suit your cruising style. For example, if I were to convert my boat into a long distance motorboat (not that I would ever do it but to give you the perspective), I would do the following:
1. Change to a quieter 4cyl diesel engine that is extensively silenced ($10K)
2. Convert to a hard dodger, with a soft enclosure at the back (this will be the pilothouse with a forward view), about $3,000.
3. Install a below deck pilot with click to turn controls in a number of locations (i.e. under the dodger, inside, etc) $3,000
4. Add about 150-200 gallons in 2-3 flexible fuel tanks (marginal bit possible). Should give a range of 2,500-3,000 nm.

There you have it, for about $20K plus another $15K for getting the boat if you do not have a sailboat.

I would still look for a Nauticat in your situation but if you want to experiment, this could be a plan.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:26   #14
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
You have to draw the line somewhere. Nauticat is the perfect boat for your requi
3. Install a below deck pilot with click to turn controls in a number of locations (i.e. under the dodger, inside, etc) $3,000
n.

Hi
been thinking about same.
question have about #3
not sure I grasp what do you mean by "below deck pilot"
thanks
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:01   #15
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Re: Motorsailer for voyaging, power/sail 60/40 vs 40/60

I have a Colvic Victor 34 motorsailer ketch, for years I either sailed or motored, I come from the dinghy school of sailing so I like wind and the quiet. I am now a convert to using both. I changed from a 70hp diesel to a 40hp, the drop in fuel consumption was amazing and it was quieter and easier to handle. The design said a 35hp and the result is the same speed and the stern doesn't dig down so much. We also shortened the stern gear by 3" back to spec. So if you buy second hand try to get the right engine sterngear combination. Everything is now better than it was.
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