Motor sailor definition.

[mvweebles]

Y'all are confusing sailboats with motors with motorsailors. Getting wrapped around the axle with semantics. The genre is fairly well defined to most folks.

Its been 75+ years since the word "auxiliary" has been applied to sailboats in a serious manner. Since then, only folks with Greek fisherman's hats and corn cob pipe costumes use the description without a punch line.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by chrisr

our 12m catamaran has 110hp. does this make us a motor sailor ??

cheers,

Well. This is what we call a rhetorical question, I think.


But you can get rid of the motors and use the space for e.g. sail lockers.


Any boat, also a slow cruising catamaran, can sail faster when she gets lighter and has better sail wardrobe.

[Montanan]

Okay bring out the big guns.

Per Wikipedia:

A Motorsailer, aka "motorsailor" (US),[1] is a type of sailing vessel, typically a pleasure yacht, that derives propulsion from its sails and engine(s) in equal measure.[2]

Whereas most sailing yachts above a certain size (say, 7 meters LOA) will usually have an inboard engine, they will not be "motorsailers", as their principal source of power is sail, and the engine is primarily for maneuvering and motoring in light airs. A sailing yacht with an auxiliary engine will typically have a small propeller that automatically feathers when sailing, whereas a motorsailer may have either a large fixed propeller or, ideally, a variable-pitch propeller.[3] Compared to such "pure" sailing yachts, a motorsailer will typically be heavier-built, perhaps with less delicate lines but with more spacious accommodation. A motorsailer will have an enclosed cockpit, or "doghouse", whereas most pure sailing yachts would have an open cockpit. A motorsailer may have a higher freeboard, and, coupled with the doghouse and other superstructure, will have considerable side windage.
The motorsailer's sail area will typically be rather smaller than an equivalent yacht's, and any masts may be shorter. Also, while a sailing yacht will often be rigged as a Bermuda rigged-sloop or cutter (both types having a single mast), the motorsailer will more likely have a multi-masted split-rig sail-plan, such as a ketch,[4] yawl or schooner.[5][6]

While the sailing yacht appeals primarily to the purist sailing enthusiast, the motorsailer is more suited for long-distance cruising, or as a home for "live-aboard" yachtsmen.[7] The special features of the motorsailer (large engine, smaller sails, etc.) mean that, while it may not be the fastest boat under sail, the vessel is easily handled by a small crew. As such, it can be ideal for a retired couple who might not be able to handle large sail areas. In heavy weather, the motorsailer's large engine allows it to punch into a headwind when necessary to make a landfall, without endless tacking to windward.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorsailer

And then there is the RotorSailerMotor Ship which will become ever more common in the large commercial cargo ships in order to achieve the reduced emissions per tonnage goals of the IMO.

A rotor ship is a type of ship designed to use the Magnus effect for propulsion. The ship is propelled, at least in part, by large powered vertical rotors, sometimes known as rotor sails. German engineer Anton Flettner was the first to build a ship that attempted to tap this force for propulsion, and ships using his type of rotor are sometimes known as Flettner ships.

The Magnus effect is a force acting on a spinning body in a moving airstream, which produces a force perpendicular to both the direction of the airstream and the axis of the rotor.

[barnakiel]

To me, stuff like a Nauticat, Fisher, etc. is a motor-sailor. SA/Displ may be lower there, the hull may be optimized for power rather than sail, etc. I look at a tub I know she is a motor-sailor. I think they are best choice in some hard to sail places where you cannot rely on the wind, but you can bet on plenty of tidal currents. No damage if sailed elsewhere. Choices and tastes. Off course nothing stops a car driving mentality skipper from buying a Lagoon and never once unfurling the sails, but that's another story. De facto most Caribbean and Med charter sailing boats are motor sailors when seen from this angle.

[Pelagic]

I think the Wiki definition just about nails it.
I have always thought of my schooner as a motorsailor, because it needs 15 knots of wind to sail well and has a large enough main engine, fuel capacity and maintainable engineroom to motor whenever conditions or schedule dictate

[barnakiel]

BTW My salivation episodes are reserved mostly for modern racers, or else some very rarefied and romantic hulls like Nautor's S&S, etc. But a cute motor sailor with a fisher style pilot house is probably what I will end up with when I get old and too weak to sail.

[deblen]

Tell me honestly-would you really enjoy an open cockpit sailboat at this lattitude & wx conditions as much as this guy? Cheers/ Len

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgqFRkrRo50

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

a.k.a. They are motorsailing but not on motorsailers.

Humbly I reattach a photo of me motorsailing a sailboat. Motor on, mainsail up

I suppose you could say people who motorsail are motorsailors, whether or not they are motorsailing on a motorsailer

Where be your day shape signal? A cone should be displayed whenever a sail boat is motoring.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...1&d=1612220647

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Where be your day shape signal? A cone should be displayed whenever a sail boat is motoring.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...1&d=1612220647

Not always in Canada...

Vessels less than 12 metres in length are not required to exhibit the day shape in Canadian waters of a roadstead (a partly sheltered anchorage), harbour, river, lake or inland waterway.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Where be your day shape signal? A cone should be displayed whenever a sail boat is motoring.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...1&d=1612220647

Sundown. I'm about to duck below and switch on the running lights (and steaming light)

Life comes at you fast when you're alone on a boat, even in calm waters like that.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Not always in Canada...

Vessels less than 12 metres in length are not required to exhibit the day shape in Canadian waters of a roadstead (a partly sheltered anchorage), harbour, river, lake or inland waterway.

Well sure enough; there always seems to be exceptions to every rule.

Rule 25
Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars — International

e)
A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.

Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars — Canadian Modification
(f)
Notwithstanding paragraph (e), in the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a vessel of less than 12 metres in length proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery is not required to exhibit a conical shape, apex downwards, but may do so.

[Lost in Hawaii]

what would a Roberts 38' gaff rig with a 4-108perkins motor be defined as ?

[Scott Berg]

Ted Brewer (one of my favorite designers) had a very good discussion in his book on Understanding Sailboat Design. https://www.amazon.com/Understanding...329719&sr=8-1m He basically broke it down to 25/75, 50/50, and 75/25 Sail to Power Ratios. My Seaton Ketch (45' 60' LOA with near 2000 sq ft of sail and a 135 hp engine) would considered 75 Sail/ 25 Power... Well worth the read for many things beyond this...

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Translation: If you go down to the ICW and watch...98% are motorsailors...regardless of the boat design.

The ICW is a specific waterway not conducive to sailing. Generalizing boats based on what happens there is contra-indicated.

[sstuller]

Originally Posted by sstuller

A suggestion. If the sails develop more thrust than the motor it is a sailboat. An estimate of sail thrust is one pound per square foot in a 15 knot breeze. Motor thrust is a function of motor size. A sailboat can be turned into a motorsailor with a bigger motor.

An estimate of motor thrust is about 25#/HP. If your working sail area is 250 square feet you will develop 250# thrust in a 15 knot breeze. A 10 HP motor will give you about the same thrust. So any bigger motor will put you in the motorsailor category.