Missing yacht near Barbados..

[mrm]

Originally Posted by Polux

... but ok, I will post no more on this thread.

Thank you.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Yes, yes! I was thinking this today. There was many days this year that would of taken substantial time to stop the boat, trade winds and decent seas from behind...... Stay on the boat! Preferably don't leave the cockpit.

I've never found what I consider a good Jack line setup, they get tangled around Me, I spend do much time concentrating on the lines rather than what I'm doing..... still working on a better solution.

my solution flush deck boat with 2 jackline one on either side of the mast running right up the centerline of the boat. Color coded.

[JPA Cate]

Dale,

What Jim did with me, was to chuck a Type IV flotation cushion overboard, and my job was to get there and heave to alongside, so we could recover it with a boathook. The first time, he set it up so I could ask for help working it out. The successive times came as surprises. It was very good training, and actually kind of fun. We rescued caps and fenders this way, too. And if you have another silly girl crew without the gumption to tell you what she wants to learn, it is something you could let her learn that would stick with her.

Ann

[mocha]

this is a incredibly difficult thread, however, a subject that I am passionate about -- I am getting involved with the below program to hopefully assist couples who sail together, have the skills and confidence to handle emergencies at sea,


MISSION. The mission of SAFETY FOR CRUISING COUPLES INCLUDING SUDDENLY ALONE is to provide shorthanded crew members the tools and knowledge that will enable them to avoid, and if necessary, handle emergencies. By practicing aboard their own boats, crew members will develop the confidence and competence that will enhance their enjoyment of cruising.
The program is designed to raise the understanding and confidence of crew members with limited experience. It describes and demonstrates the minimum skills necessary to assume command and it covers the minimum emergency procedures to learn and practice before an incident occurs. The five subjects of the program are Introduction and Psychology, Stabilizing the Situation, Communicating a Request for Assistance, Navigating to a Safe Haven, and Recovery of an Overboard Person.


https://sas.cruisingclub.org/scc/outline

cheers,
MOCHA

[zeehag]

from a group regarding overdue and lost boats

Update to S/V Vagant!!!!!!!! 1700pm local time, Elizabeth was safely picked up from deck by cargo ship M/V Orange Star (described as fruit juice tanker ), she is safe on board and with good health, crew of cargo ship is attempting to towing operation of S/V Vagant to port in Barbados, Vagant was insured for such situation, but such operation is always difficult, so fingers crossed again.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its a common thing to judge others from the perspective of ones own limitations on risks, skills/capabilities and stamina.. dont sweat it..
Its human nature

Oh Boatie, you'r a bad ,bad man.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by zeehag

from a group regarding overdue and lost boats

According to Aga's FB site, still no sign of the skipper.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Polux

Yes death is perfectly reasonable, shortening the time we have to live with careless decisions is not reasonable.

The only thing why in average we today live till over 74 is because after 60 we have quality medic care frequently in what regards preventive (surveyance) and active care.

The average of male life expectancy on US is about 77 years, now, but in 1930 it was about 60. The difference is due mostly to medic care.

If you go circumnavigating around the world on all those beautiful and godforsaken places you will have no more quality preventive and active medic care so if you have 74 and do that what do you think that will happen to your life time expectancy?

Do you reach 78 (the age that sailor would have when he finished his circumnavigation) on those conditions? Statistically it would be very improbable even if it can happen but the odds will be much much lower than if you have proper medical care.

I guess that if you think that death is not reasonable you will agree that life is precious, so it is reasonable to take actions that almost for sure are going to shorten it, probably drastically?

I've met guys their 70s who are super active, easily capable of competing in triathlons etc.. I don't think you can go on age alone. But if you do, then bare in mind these guys were European, there's a higher life expectancy over here (part of the reason the bloody pension age keeps getting increased).

On the flip side, I was kayaking solo in South America on the lake that the North Face founder died in just months before. He knew the area better, was a more proficient canoeist/kayaker, and had other people around him. He was 74 and died from the exposure, so I guess **** can happen.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Oh Boatie, you'r a bad ,bad man.

Oh you flatterer you..

[GTom]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

On the flip side, I was kayaking solo in South America on the lake that the North Face founder died in just months before. He knew the area better, was a more proficient canoeist/kayaker, and had other people around him. He was 74 and died from the exposure, so I guess **** can happen.

Indeed, it can happen. I am also diving and hear/read about many young and fit fellow divers passing away every year. Reasons behind a lethal accident vary, human error might be more prevalent in the younger generations while health/fitness issues hit the elderly.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

I've met guys their 70s who are super active, easily capable of competing in triathlons etc.. I don't think you can go on age alone. But if you do, then bare in mind these guys were European, there's a higher life expectancy over here (part of the reason the bloody pension age keeps getting increased).

On the flip side, I was kayaking solo in South America on the lake that the North Face founder died in just months before. He knew the area better, was a more proficient canoeist/kayaker, and had other people around him. He was 74 and died from the exposure, so I guess **** can happen.

This subject has been discussed on a big facebook group about sailing where the members are not so aged as the ones around here where a 60 year old guy is a young fellow.

The subject had to do with the increasing number of rescues that recently have to be made having as object old sailors. Some of them rescued more than one time.

This case is just one more to that list. The main concern had to do with rescues on sailing passing to be covered by an insurance. As you know that happens already (the mandatory insurance) for other activities where the risk of a rescue exists.

Nobody wants to pay for that insurance but if the number of cases continues to increase it will happen since it is not fair tax payers paying for that kind of stuff that does not concern the vast majority, that's the reason why other activities have already mandatory insurances.

If that is the case it would be very difficult for a 74 year old sailor to start a circumnavigation because he would find very difficult to be insured and even if he finds an insurance company that covers that risk, the insurance will be huge, proportional to the risk.

[Nicor]

Originally Posted by Polux

This subject has been discussed on a big facebook group about sailing where the members are not so aged as the ones around here where a 60 year old guy is a young fellow.

The subject had to do with the increasing number of rescues that recently have to be made having as object old sailors. Some of them rescued more than one time.

This case is just one more to that list. The main concern had to do with rescues on sailing passing to be covered by an insurance. As you know that happens already (the mandatory insurance) for other activities where the risk of a rescue exists.

Nobody wants to pay for that insurance but if the number of cases continues to increase it will happen since it is not fair tax payers paying for that kind of stuff that does not concern the vast majority, that's the reason why other activities have already mandatory insurances.

If that is the case it would be very difficult for a 74 year old sailor to start a circumnavigation because he would find very difficult to be insured and even if he finds an insurance company that covers that risk, the insurance will be huge, proportional to the risk.

With you having said that, i am going to have to go back and read what my SAR states about that age thing.... Don't remember there being anything.
Some countries not covered, but anywhere else is.

[BandB]

There are multiple issues here. First, and foremost, is the yacht and rescue being discussed. Our sympathy to the family and friends. That's what is most important for this thread.

Then become the broader issues and I'm just going to highlight them, not debate them or get into lengthy discussion here. Perhaps topics for new threads.

Age and health. When to stop? Not just sailing, all activities. My grandfather was a danger on the roads, to himself and others, but wasn't ever going to voluntarily give up driving.

Rights and responsibilities to self and others. There's a lot of argument that one has the right to take whatever risks they want and die even on their own terms. That's fine but you're not the only one impacted. Could be innocent others, but more likely family and friends who are torn by guilt that they didn't stop you. If one is going that route, please discuss at length with spouses, children, others to let them understand you.

Single handing, crew with no training, overnighting, lack of sleep. This is an entire area of additional risks. They need to be carefully evaluated, not ignored.

Lack of training, experience. This is the just do it, take off for the seas vs the get some training and experience first argument. This includes MOB training.

Wearing PFD's and carrying EPIRB's and all the other related issues around both protection and recovery.

These are all topics the sailing community and the cruising community needs to openly discuss but in constructive and respectful ways and not in second guessing a tragedy that is just being uncovered but on a continuing basis.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

This subject has been discussed on a big facebook group about sailing where the members are not so aged as the ones around here where a 60 year old guy is a young fellow.

The subject had to do with the increasing number of rescues that recently have to be made having as object old sailors. Some of them rescued more than one time.

This case is just one more to that list. The main concern had to do with rescues on sailing passing to be covered by an insurance. As you know that happens already (the mandatory insurance) for other activities where the risk of a rescue exists.

Nobody wants to pay for that insurance but if the number of cases continues to increase it will happen since it is not fair tax payers paying for that kind of stuff that does not concern the vast majority, that's the reason why other activities have already mandatory insurances.

If that is the case it would be very difficult for a 74 year old sailor to start a circumnavigation because he would find very difficult to be insured and even if he finds an insurance company that covers that risk, the insurance will be huge, proportional to the risk.

That would be the US of A where everything is privatised and profit based.. especially lives.
Over this side its State funded and part of the National Security system or like the UK/Oz/NZ run by Charities and volunteers..

[davil]

Originally Posted by Polux

This subject has been discussed on a big facebook group about sailing where the members are not so aged as the ones around here where a 60 year old guy is a young fellow.

The subject had to do with the increasing number of rescues that recently have to be made having as object old sailors. Some of them rescued more than one time.

.

Polux
trying to find those statistic reports you refer to,I googled under different search variables and the only one I found was BoatUS with average age been 47.
Will you please guide me on my search?
thanks
David

'Sobering MOB Facts From BoatUS"

24% were characterized as falls overboard
24% died at night, 76% died in daytime
63% did not know how to swim
8% of non–swimmers were wearing life jacket
90% occurred in calm weather with < 1′ chop
4% of the boats had two engines
85% were men
Average age was 47
Alcohol consumption played a part in
27% of daytime deaths
50% of nighttime deaths
— How to Prepare for a Man Overboard 2