Mending Sails With Adhesives ?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I always have a litre can of Contact Cement on bpard, as Cotemar says.
Its better than 5200 and for one small tube of 5200 you get a whole litre of contact cement.

It repairs permanently.

BTW Many sail makers bond sails now as it saves weight aloft.

Alos I find the sail repair tape too light weight for my main or genoa, and the glue is tame, and only on the side of the repair tape so you still need to add glue to the sail.

Finally, a few spare bits of sail clothis cheaper than sail repair tape. So for a cheaper, better quality repair I use old sails and contact cement.

Sounds like you tried the cheap repair kits from the expensive chandleries. Bainbridge Insignia cloth is what all the sailmakers use and it doesn't need any additional contact cement.

All these repairs are temporary. Full repair means replacing the panel that is torn, for which you need to have enough of the original sail material on board.

Our sails use three different weights of Hydranet cloth; for each I have enough for the largest panel made in that weight. Very easy and little cost to get this when you order new sails.

You also need "seamstick", V69 and V138 thread and a zig-zag machine like the Sailrite.

ciao!
Nick.

[Vicenc]

Originally Posted by Bestathook

In various postings, I have seen mention of mending sails with adhesive and patches, as opposed to sewing. Can they be used for permanent mending?

How common is this, and how strong is it? Can anyone recommend particular materials to use, or any special technique?

I have used adhesives to hold cloth in place while sewing. but often felt that the sewing machine needle made a line of perforations that weakened the sailcloth to "tear on the perforated line".

I would also like to hear amount of experiences in this practice, as well as opinions on it in general.

I have read the results of a forum searching, but have found no definitive discussion of the subject. If you know of a thread about it, please post a link. Thanks.

@Bestathook, Follow this thread to learn more about sail repair adhesives 3M spray adhesives for sail repair - Page 2 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Cheers,
Vicenç

[Lizzy Belle]

Erhm ... Bestahook opened this topic on 12-02-2014.
I doubt he's still waiting for an answer

[JPA Cate]

^^^^

Il ne faut pas toujours etre ivre; il faut toujours etre joyeux!--atc

Cheers, Lizzy,

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Erhm ... Bestahook opened this topic on 12-02-2014.
I doubt he's still waiting for an answer

LOL. Probably still good info though.

PS: Glue is the ONLY way to fix some sails. Due to the characteristics of the cloth.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Just use Contact Cement to fix your sails. Been using it for years. Works great.
It's one of those glues you should always have on board a boat.

Anymore long-term report on this? I just did some test samples (pulled in test rig) and it was easily as strong as the cloth and miles better than tape. It seemed as strong as 3M 5200, though I have not finished UV aging. Certainly easier to work with. Down sides are less gap filling and that perfect alignment is needed (tape on the back side). Plus is far less bulk.

Thoughts? Seems pretty permanent, but something in my head mistrusts it, don't know why. But testing rules.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Contact Cement isn't permanent, at least not in the sense that it'll last anywhere near as long as the sail will, or that you can't remove the patch at some point. Though if/when you do pull it, it can leave some nasty, ugly, 1/2 stuck on patches of glue behind.
So some people will then glue on another patch, when the first one comes off/is pulled off. After going over the sail really well to remove any loosely adhered patches of glue. And it is possible to get most of the glue off of the sail, if you've got the will & some time.

Also, I've seen some glued on patches gum up sewing machine needles, & others not. Which most likely is governed by how well cured things are, & how hot the needle is getting. But possiibly by how clean & dry the sail was when patched, as well. As I'm guessing that contaminants & or moisture, may inhibit the glue from curing fully, or by the stated time frame on it's spec' sheet.

The other thing is, & I cringe saying this, but you can use adhesives to fix sails where sewing wouldn't be an option. As sometimes cloth is just to old to hold stitches well. Or the stitching produces a "tear here" line, as mentioned in an above post. And you'll not be able to pull off such a patch without destroying such a sail most likely.

I can't say that I've tried Contact Cement much on laminates, or slippery stuff like woven Spectra. But my gut tells me that it won't work nearly as well on the former as it does on Dacron. And I wouldn't even try it on some types of Spectra sails. For them I'd find a loft, or ask for some proprietary adhesives.

Bottom line, I'm still a fan of stitching repairs onto sails, if at all possible. Though for many reasons, sometimes that's not an option. Or at least not right away. But as soon as the hook's down, & we've had a couple of good meals & a nap, then it's time to tend to the "Horse & Saddle", again. Having done solid quick fixes enroute.

[TheOffice]

The Volvo guys use quick cure 5200 FWIW.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Thoughts? Seems pretty permanent, but something in my head mistrusts it, don't know why. But testing rules.

So fabric covered aircraft are all glued together these days. The fabric is also polyester. Contact cement is not approved much any more. However there are glues that when dry are as strong as the fabric in some directions of pull. Approved glue does not attack the fiber, it surrounds the fibers. As far as I can tell, it lasts as long as the fabric.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Anymore long-term report on this? I just did some test samples (pulled in test rig) and it was easily as strong as the cloth and miles better than tape. It seemed as strong as 3M 5200, though I have not finished UV aging. Certainly easier to work with. Down sides are less gap filling and that perfect alignment is needed (tape on the back side). Plus is far less bulk.

Thoughts? Seems pretty permanent, but something in my head mistrusts it, don't know why. But testing rules.

It's not good enough on Mylar film according to my tests. I used a 3M neoprene contact adhesive. I can believe it would work on Dacron though as it is a much grippier substrate.

Some substrates contain plasticiser, which in time will leach out and weaken the glue ( I read this somewhere), so a short term test is not in itself enough.

[JPA Cate]

Hey, UNCIVILIZED, if you were really out somewhere it would be a month or so before you could encounter a sailmaker at all, how would you mend a spectra sail? What would you carry with you? We have used sticky-back sailcloth to mend a scragged dacron sail, quite successfully, no sewing needed, though we have sail cloth needles and threads. But now both our main and genoa are Spectra. Thanks in advance.

Ann

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by TheOffice

The Volvo guys use quick cure 5200 FWIW.

Why spend 10 times the cost?

Because thats what it is. 10 times more expensive to buy 5200 than contact cement by the quart/litre.

My last post in this thread was 2014. Nothing glued then has fallen off yet.

Remember 5200 is 10 times the cost.

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Why spend 10 times the cost?

Because thats what it is. 10 times more expensive to buy 5200 than contact cement by the quart/litre.

My last post in this thread was 2014. Nothing glued then has fallen off yet.

Remember 5200 is 10 times the cost.

Yes , another vote for contact cement.

If its in a high stress area i'll glue a patch each side then nip around the outside edge with a zig zag stitch using my my stitch-it-awl.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by poiu

It's not good enough on Mylar film according to my tests. I used a 3M neoprene contact adhesive. I can believe it would work on Dacron though as it is a much grippier substrate.

Some substrates contain plasticiser, which in time will leach out and weaken the glue ( I read this somewhere), so a short term test is not in itself enough.

a. No plastisizers in polyester fabric. This is mostly a concern with vinyl.

b. I used old cloth, as most sails that would be repaired are not new. At least not in my interest.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Guy

So fabric covered aircraft are all glued together these days. The fabric is also polyester. Contact cement is not approved much any more. However there are glues that when dry are as strong as the fabric in some directions of pull. Approved glue does not attack the fiber, it surrounds the fibers. As far as I can tell, it lasts as long as the fabric.

On this, I'm thinking that how well a glue works would easily have as much to do with how much, if any, resin is in the cloth. What kind of resin it is. The treatment of the cloth. As for example, with fiberglass cloth, if it has the wrong sizing, or no sizing, then resins (epoxy, polyester, vinylester, etc.) won't stick to it. Plus perhaps a dozen other things which I'm not aware of.
And the above would apply to most glues. So they need to be tested pretty well before one depends on them.

Any links to these glues, or text on how they're used, etc.? And yep, I'll do some Googlefu. Just curious if you have any primo information. Thanks!

On 5200, there was a how to article in Crusing World ages ago, as in over a decade. But it's worth digging up if you're unsure how to use the stuff to fix sails. Most of it's common sense, but it never hurts to brush up on your techniques. And practicing is fairly cheap if you have, or pick up an old sail.
I'm overdue for same myself.