Mast step quote crazy or am I?

[zachduckworth]

Hi all,

I recently spoke to a fabricator (Southern CA) about fabricating some 5000 series aluminum mast steps. The basic plan is attached as a picture. Steps are 1.5” wide, 3/16 thick. He wants $1800 to make 25 steps with 5 rivet holes each, or $500 for just 25 bars cut to size then the edges rounded off. I would then need to bend and drill them. I will be the one doing the install.

This seems highly inflated to me and I’m thinking about just making them myself. A 3’ x 2’ piece of 5000 series is about $30, and I already have most tye tools needed to put them together.

Has anyone done this job entirely from scratch? It seems (relatively) easy to me.

One question though. I often see people online install these with the opposite angle on top. I noted that in The Long Way Moitessier put the opposite angle on the bottom, and that seems like it might be more secure as regards attachment to the mast.

[MicHughV]

Right of the bat....do not rivet these to the mast, take your time and do it properly.

You want a small diameter threaded screw like 3/16" x 3/4". While these are available with a standard thread, see if you can find some with a fine thread as this will give the screw a better grip on the mast wall. You can find these online. Drill and tap the mast at each screw location, yes, it's a PITA, but do it.

Schmear a tab of 5200 in the drilled hole and also on the screw and a tad more on the back of the upper and lower tang of the step, so as to make this connection as leak proof as you can make it.

A final bit of advice, think carefully where to place them. Start by measuring from spreader to bottom of mast, using the spreader as one of the "steps".
Use a 15" separation between steps if you can. you can use more, like 18", but 15" is easier to climb.

At the top of the mast, place two steps side by side, so if you have to work at the top of the mast you'll have a level place to stand.

They are not difficult to make yourself of you have the tools. The above pic shows the correct orientation is this can prevent your foot from slipping off.

[MicHughV]

forgot to add...use panhead screws

[marcjsmith]

you could always go this route for a DIY
https://www.thelowcostsailor.com/en/...ly-even-alone/

Basically sounds like the fabricator gave you, what I would call, a PITA price. Really doesn't want to do it, but would do it for the right price.

Just cutting and drilling isn't too difficult, but then you throw in making 100 perfect consistent bends.

https://marinecityhardware.com/produ...cFjAIVcBNtLnLs $525 for stainless really don't need the teak step.

https://south-atlantic.com.ar/shop/e...ast-steps.html $300 Al

[kayakerChuck]

Making these on a custom basis is going to sting. It's a bunch of set up time for a small order.

[jordanbettis]

I would trust rivets more than screws. The mast section thickness is usually insufficient for screws. Three or four threads is not enough, especially in aluminum.


Rivnuts is an option if you really want to be able to disassemble without drilling rivets out. But if you leave the screws in too long and don't keep antiseize on them they will spin when you try to remove the screws.

[zachduckworth]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

you could always go this route for a DIY
https://www.thelowcostsailor.com/en/...ly-even-alone/

Basically sounds like the fabricator gave you, what I would call, a PITA price. Really doesn't want to do it, but would do it for the right price.

Just cutting and drilling isn't too difficult, but then you throw in making 100 perfect consistent bends.

https://marinecityhardware.com/produ...cFjAIVcBNtLnLs $525 for stainless really don't need the teak step.

https://south-atlantic.com.ar/shop/e...ast-steps.html $300 Al

I need to look into that South Atlantic Windvane as well, that price point is less than half the competition…

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

Hi all,

I recently spoke to a fabricator (Southern CA) about fabricating some 5000 series aluminum mast steps. The basic plan is attached as a picture. Steps are 1.5” wide, 3/16 thick. He wants $1800 to make 25 steps with 5 rivet holes each, or $500 for just 25 bars cut to size then the edges rounded off. I would then need to bend and drill them. I will be the one doing the install.

This seems highly inflated to me and I’m thinking about just making them myself. A 3’ x 2’ piece of 5000 series is about $30, and I already have most tye tools needed to put them together.

Has anyone done this job entirely from scratch? It seems (relatively) easy to me.

One question though. I often see people online install these with the opposite angle on top. I noted that in The Long Way Moitessier put the opposite angle on the bottom, and that seems like it might be more secure as regards attachment to the mast.

Try a roofing meta fabricator. This is closer to their bread and butter. They should have a brake to make the bends quickly.


If you do it yourself, I would think it would be easier to buy strip. Otherwise, I assume you have a large bandsaw. Lot's of edges to finish.


You'll need a pretty large brake to do it well. 3/16" in 5000 is too much for small brakes. Additionally, 5000 may crack (or micro-crack) in that thickness when bent. I would test a piece. You might need a longer radius bend, which is not a standard bending brake thing (hydraulic press against a die).


Maybe not so simple. You could just buy the one in you image for $650 for 25. Seems nice.


----


Personally, I wouldn't have steps on my mast.

[thinwater]

I see that you want them wider (1.5 vs1), but ladder rungs are typically 1", and because your feet are at an angle, the extra width doesn't really help with support unless they are angled, as is commonly done on ladders, but yours are not. It also makes them harder to use as hand holds.


I don't really see how wrapping them helps. Just more maintenance and more junk aloft. Wear gloves.


Designs are standard for reasons.

[Shrew]

If you mount it with the angle on top (as imaged) then your foot can't slip out the side of the step when the boat is rolling

If you mount it with the angle on the bottom, then there is nothing preventing your foot from sliding off the side of the step when the boat is rolling.

I found a variety of mast steps and they all range around $25/ea. (USD).

Also, you're measurement notations don't make sense. 3' x 2' is 3 Feet by 2 Feet. Do you possibly mean 3' x 2" (three feet by 2 inches)??

Do you have a metal brake that can bend aluminum that thick?

[boatpoker]

Regardless of screw, rivet or any other type of fastener ensure if they are not aluminum do NOT install without wiping each fastener withTef-gel to avoid galvanic corrosion.

[MicHughV]

I was looking at some pics of my old boat.
The main mast was 40' long, and I counted 23 steps in all.
I did have halyard winches either side of the mast near the bottom, which I used as steps, so yes, 25 in all for a 40' stick sounds about right.

I screwed mine in, and in the 15 odd years I had that boat, never had the slightest problem with them. I have no experience with using pop rivets for steps so can't speak to the efficiency of that.

[zachduckworth]

Originally Posted by Shrew

If you mount it with the angle on top (as imaged) then your foot can't slip out the side of the step when the boat is rolling

If you mount it with the angle on the bottom, then there is nothing preventing your foot from sliding off the side of the step when the boat is rolling.

I found a variety of mast steps and they all range around $25/ea. (USD).

Also, you're measurement notations don't make sense. 3' x 2' is 3 Feet by 2 Feet. Do you possibly mean 3' x 2" (three feet by 2 inches)??

Do you have a metal brake that can bend aluminum that thick?

Sorry, what I meant is that I can cut the individual steps myself out of a pie e of 3’ x 2’ aluminum. My point was that the aluminum is pretty cheap and easy to work.

I watched a video where they hammer the steps into shape using a vice and rubber mallet. I’m going to try that first. If it doesn’t work I’m out $30 for the aluminum.

[barnakiel]

We have Selden steps. They are excellent.


I looked at their price in a local shop and I fainted.


EUR 70 per piece. Add 2 monel rivets for each.


...


damn pricey but darn good


I am lucky as ours came with the boat.


highly recommended


barnakiel

[Ween]

mechanical engineering 101

never use fine thread fasteners in an aluminum mast as they are weaker and more susceptible to corrosion.

a coarse thread fastener is stronger unless the material is less than 1/2 bolt diameter, then the solution is a smaller coarse thread fastener.

at some mast thickness point the correct answer is riveting as seen on small boats and racing dinghies.