Massive amounts of plastic....burn or ignore?

[sailorboy1]

Burn it!

[GordMay]

Ideally, we should reduce, reuse, and recycle, in that order.
When we get to the stage of deciding whether to burn, or bury waste, we have already failed, failed some more, and then failed again.
However, it is safer to contain that failure, than to spread it through the atmosphere, in the form of toxic gases.

Bury plastic waste.

“Can we safely burn used plastic objects in a domestic fireplace?” ~ by Amy Biemiller, MIT
No, you can’t. Don’t even think about It …
➥ https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/a...tic-fireplace/

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Nope, but you'd be surprised that this kind of "infrastruture" doesn't get stolen very often. And if an old barrel happens to be found on the beach, it's worth getting out the powertools to pimp it into a furnace. Barrel, some fouf rebar-stock to make a grill inside, some stones to keep it up.

If such a burner is available, it'll also be used.

That might work in some places, maybe some of the eastern Carib. Not to likely here where you have hundreds of islands, tons of plastic trash and few cruisers.

[Rowglide]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Nope, but you'd be surprised that this kind of "infrastruture" doesn't get stolen very often. And if an old barrel happens to be found on the beach, it's worth getting out the powertools to pimp it into a furnace. Barrel, some fouf rebar-stock to make a grill inside, some stones to keep it up.

If such a burner is available, it'll also be used.

How about some of the engineering minds on this forum come up with a furnace design that could be made almost anywhere. One built with simple materials (barrels, roofing metal...)
I agree that if it were there, it would get used.

[boatman61]

Ideally we would stop producing and using the non recyclable stuff..
No excuses (bar manufacturers profits) in this day and age with so many alternatives.
As that old song goes..
"Got along without you before I met you.... Gonna get along without you now..."

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Ideally, we should reduce, reuse, and recycle, in that order.

The usual hogwash. If you want to be depressed, look into how much of the plastic can actually be recycled or at least used as a lower grade base material. Surprisingly little.

Originally Posted by GordMay

However, it is safer to contain that failure, than to spread it through the atmosphere, in the form of toxic gases.

Here you make a ton of assumptions that most landfills, specially those on islands, don't satisfy.

If you want to go talk about ideal conditions, proper high-temperature incineration with exhaust treatment is by far the best way to solve the problem. This can be done and actually is done in Scandinavia and all of the German-speaking countries, where a strong sense of not wanting to live on trash-heaps has developed in the past decades and the population actually pays to keep the environment clean.

Burying the stuff is just postponing the problem while hoping none of the things get into the ground-water.

But neither option is available in many places. So the question comes down to:

• Leave it in the environment to pollute the beaches and the water
• Burn it more or less dirtily

No magic unicorns eating the plastic and shitting gold option available, no other options involving magic to make plastic disappear either and no feelgood fluff from glossy eco-brochures about reducing plastic are available either.

You sound like that bratty girl sailing with much hubbub across the Atlantic in an IMOCA 60 to save the world and at the same time a crew flew the same way to return the boat back to Europe.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Ideally we would stop producing and using the non recyclable stuff..
No excuses (bar manufacturers profits) in this day and age with so many alternatives.

You'd be surprised how little alternatives are available and how much more effort they are on everyone. To stay on the topic, do you want to go back to natural fibre running rigging and wooden boats instead of dyneema and fibreglass with tons of resin? Natural fibre sails instead of dacron? All the windows in your spray-hood would be gone without proper replacement. Ever wonder what material your cockpit-cushions are mode of? Is it natural latex or some kind of plastic-foam? And don't forget all those high-tech foulies that keep water out and the sailor warm, they'd have to be replaced by natural stuff too. Knitted wool and waxed cloth anyone?

I guess, the next argument is going to be, lets change those things I don't care about.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Ideally we would stop producing and using the non recyclable stuff..
No excuses (bar manufacturers profits) in this day and age with so many alternatives.
As that old song goes..
"Got along without you before I met you.... Gonna get along without you now..."

Something modern and high tech, like glass bottles instead of plastic? Enforcing reusable containers would radically reduce the number of plastic bottles covering the beaches.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

You'd be surprised how little alternatives are available and how much more effort they are on everyone. To stay on the topic, do you want to go back to natural fibre running rigging and wooden boats instead of dyneema and fibreglass with tons of resin? Natural fibre sails instead of dacron? All the windows in your spray-hood would be gone without proper replacement. Ever wonder what material your cockpit-cushions are mode of? Is it natural latex or some kind of plastic-foam? And don't forget all those high-tech foulies that keep water out and the sailor warm, they'd have to be replaced by natural stuff too. Knitted wool and waxed cloth anyone?

I guess, the next argument is going to be, lets change those things I don't care about.

Sure we use a lot of plastic going about our hobby but that is plastic which tends to get used for a long time. Not at all like the (e.g.) single use coca cola bottles, lids of starbucks coffee cups and now (new, coming to a beach near you soon!) disposal face masks. Items which are the most prevalent when scouring the beaches in the Med and, judging by an earlier photo, elsewhere too. The one and only reason these single use items stay in use is the bottom line of a handful of companies whose execs are very much in bed with the ruling class.

[rtoner]

On YouTube I ran across a off grid person turning plastic into diesel. Might be a good thing for the local villages once set up.

[Bycrick]

I’m not interested in saving the world. After a few weeks away from civilization, I unavoidably have trash. Maybe in somebody’s perfect world I wouldn’t, but in this world, I do. Rather than pack it in in more plastic bags to be carried back to "civilization" to be buried in a landfill, I burn it on the beach and carefully bury whatever remains. While burning MY trash, I pickup whatever else I can find on the beach too. Is that a perfect solution? No. But it leaves that tiny corner of the world a little cleaner than when I arrived.

[sailorboy1]

What do all these “in an ideal world” posts have to with the real world of the question in post #1?

[thinwater]

Let's also look at the chemistry.


PVC is bad to burn because of the chlorine and it's reactions in the flame and production of chloro dioxins. But PVC sinks. No PVC on beaches to speak of.


What do we have?

• polystyrene
• polyester
• polyethylene

https://www.sea.edu/plastics/frequently_asked_questions


These are not products that are loaded with plastisizers.


The air pollutants generated burning beach plastics are probably much less than mixed trash, because PVC was typically the big villain when burning. They are just hydrocarbons. High aromatic (terephthalic acid, styrene) content means they will create a lot of soot unless conditions are well controlled.


---


No conclusions, but normal plastic and trash burning reports do not exactly apply.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

You'd be surprised how little alternatives are available and how much more effort they are on everyone. To stay on the topic, do you want to go back to natural fibre running rigging and wooden boats instead of dyneema and fibreglass with tons of resin? Natural fibre sails instead of dacron? All the windows in your spray-hood would be gone without proper replacement. Ever wonder what material your cockpit-cushions are mode of? Is it natural latex or some kind of plastic-foam? And don't forget all those high-tech foulies that keep water out and the sailor warm, they'd have to be replaced by natural stuff too. Knitted wool and waxed cloth anyone?

I guess, the next argument is going to be, lets change those things I don't care about.

Foul weather gear for me when cold is a sheepskin flying jacket, pakhol, cotton trousers and leather boots.. Buga that trendy crap..
Motorbike the same, Buga those trendy leathers..
Flip flops, leather thongs and old car tyre soles, Indians have been using car tyres since they became plentyful.
If folk stopped buying it factories would stop making it..
As for your GRP boat, I believe some places have started grinding neat plastics and fibrous plastics down for use in road surfaces.. as for the fancy ropes, I can live without them, cockpit cushions are for pussies and I have no say on what previous owners put on their boats but when they need replacing upholstery is good quality natural fibres below.
Never have liked man-made fibres, gimme Egyptian cotton or silk any day.
But seriously, quite a lot of stuff can be done without and should be, plastic carrier bags, packaging in supermarkets etc, maybe if flip flops were leather soled, cotton thonged and more expensive they'd be better looked after instead of being dumped at the end of a beach holiday or when you want a different color.
That's where the bulk of the trash comes from.. and discarded soft drinks and water bottles.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

cockpit cushions are for pussies

I can relate to this. I have enough embedded padding that I prefer laying on the teak-seats. The cushions on board are - just as you said - for the ladies on board.