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Old 27-07-2021, 19:01   #91
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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Our current yacht is one of the very few that was supplied from the factory with storm covers for all windows. However, in my view the requirements of the NZ authorities are wrong.

It should be the determination of each skipper what equipment and saftey gear is appropriate for their vessel.
I agree with this completely. However, New Zealand is not a very populous area, a small nation, and they are responsible for rescues at sea for their surrounding oceans till they get to the border with Australia, who also have a lot of sea miles in their jurisdiction. And they will tell you their overkill ways are best for sailors. We may beg to differ, but they are unlikely to change.

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Old 27-07-2021, 19:44   #92
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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I would have thought that if you are going to build a monocoque structure such as a moulded fibreglass boat then the shell structure should have equal strength and stiffness. If you are going to cut a hole in it for a window then the fastening of window to hull (and the strength/stiffness of the window) should be as strong as the rest of the hull As there aren't any adhesives yet with this strength it would surely make good sense to increase the hull thickness around the window so it would not be able to flex thus no longer be a structural weak point.

Having addressed that weakness the next thing is the bonding. On an ocean going vessel the window needs to have a system which is both leak proof and mechanically sound. Windows being blown out shouldn't surprise anyone. Obviously the pressure of a breaking wave is massive, but so is the suction on the other side , or as in this case the internal pressure caused by the open hatch. Windows need to be held mechanically on both sides. If you are going to go into severe conditions, which 90% of us almost certainly never will, you need to have a boat without weak points. which large glued windows in flexible hulls certainly are.

This analysis is spot on. Glass windows will not flex like the hull. If you are going to use glass it needs to be installed with the ability to move relative to the surround, and the hull/cabin needs to be reinforced as discussed above.


Piddly screwed storm covers are a waste of time. Solid ply or grp storm covers fitted with multiple strongbacks could do the trick, but you would need holes in the windows to allow the holding bolts to pass through. A strong cabin side will still be needed. Hopefully the NZ authorities will get this message.


Storm tactics is a whole other story. Personally I would hate to be closing a lee shore with a gale behind me.
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Old 27-07-2021, 19:51   #93
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

Well you can call them what you like , After 50+ years sailing , Delivering , Chartering from 20 ft. to 80ft. Cats , Trys , Monos iv found the new plastic jobs from around 97 onwards & even some of the 'elite 'ones are crap from doors jamming on a hard weather beat to sub standard steering gear , Penny washers for keel bolts , More ports then hull ,& dont even try the emergency tiller (In one case didnt even fit) Interior bulkheads that are 'glued' to the hulls , Cabinetry that falls off the bulkhead , Fore stay attachments that crush the GRP , Leaks hell one boat n a delivery was like a shower down below , & try to repair a F/F , Hull fittings that snap off in your hand after only 2 years , Ever tried to open one of those big flash sliding fridge doors on a rough port tack just to get the milk out for a coffee No be careful out there OR do your weather routing real good Oh unless you like Mariners living then they are great . That's ny 2 bobs worth.
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Old 27-07-2021, 22:48   #94
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

After reading the Maritime Report, So many questions; what watch system was used, how long was the skipper in the cockpit, did he become hypothermic? Why continue to run towards a lee shore, into ever shallowing water? And continue after multiple knockdowns? Were they under deep reef main and storm jib, or were they under bare poles?
Did the life-raft have a hydrostatic release?
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Old 27-07-2021, 22:58   #95
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

Shutters can make it darn dark down below!
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Old 28-07-2021, 01:02   #96
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

It should be pointed out that the Bavaria ocean of that vintage has metal framed windows to my knowledge not bonded ones
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Old 28-07-2021, 01:02   #97
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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After reading the Maritime Report, So many questions; what watch system was used, how long was the skipper in the cockpit, did he become hypothermic? Why continue to run towards a lee shore, into ever shallowing water? And continue after multiple knockdowns? Were they under deep reef main and storm jib, or were they under bare poles?
Did the life-raft have a hydrostatic release?


I think these are as much pertinent as simply blaming the boat construction.
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Old 28-07-2021, 01:40   #98
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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Boats of their time.. when quality was a desired standard.
Sadly today profits and shareholders come before ethics.

Also the attitude of society.

It is now regarded that certification of equipment and people is paramount to modern life. A consequence of the "nanny" state.

CE A classification of a yacht is not guarantee of safety and you don't need a certificate to change a plug on a toaster or a government surveyor to check an extraction fan in a bathroom.

The main issue is that people no longer take responsibility for themselves and governments would rather they didn't.

There is a modern day illusion that life is safe with populations lulled into a false sense of security by mindless technical regulations generated by committees all of whom have conflicts of interests that are then endorsed by politicians whose only qualification is a political science degree.
More people die or suffer life changing injuries playing football or rugby than any incident on a yacht.

I would suggest that NZ ban rugby!
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Old 28-07-2021, 02:04   #99
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Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

Again people fail to realise the primary purpose behind the Recreational Craft Directive

The RCD was initially designed to harmonise boat standards across EU countries to prevent unfair competition , it was instigated largely by U.K. commercial Marine interests.

It was initially extremely scant on actual standards because no international/European standards existed covering all aspects of boat construction that were suitable for high volume series production

This is where the RCD came from. Itís primarily a trade barrier agreement

Over the years the RCD has been upgraded to take into account additional ISO standards on stability scantlings etc.

But itís a minimum standard. Itís also not a classification standard or a quality standard.

Anyone buying a marked RCD class A yacht and thinking they have a bullet proof ( and idiot proof ) yacht capable of handling all sorts of crazy situations ( like repeated knockdowns ) is simply mad in the head. The RCD isnít and was never intended to be a substitute for good yacht buying and use decisions.

Itís actually a tribute to many modern yachts ( and to weather forecasting ) that loads sail across oceans and dangerous sea areas every year.

Occasionally nature reminds us whose is the boss , itís partially why we all like sailing.
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Old 28-07-2021, 02:07   #100
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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Again people fail to realise the primary purpose behind the Recreational Craft Directive

The RCD was initially designed to harmonise boat standards across EU countries to prevent unfair competition , it was instigated largely by U.K. commercial Marine interests.

It was initially extremely scant on actual standards because no international/European standards existed covering all aspects of boat construction that were suitable for high volume series production

This is where the RCD came from. Itís primarily a trade barrier agreement

Over the years the RCD has been upgraded to take into account additional ISO standards on stability scantlings etc.

But itís a minimum standard. Itís also not a classification standard or a quality standard.

Anyone buying a marked RCD class A yacht and thinking they have a bullet proof ( and idiot proof ) yacht capable of handling all sorts of crazy situations ( like repeated knockdowns ) is simply mad in the head. The RCD isnít and was never intended to be a substitute for good yacht buying and use decisions.

Itís actually a tribute to many modern yachts ( and to weather forecasting ) that loads sail across oceans and dangerous sea areas every year.

Occasionally nature reminds us whose is the boss , itís partially why we all like sailing.

Absolutely correct, but this is not how Joe public (first time yacht buyer) perceives it.
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Old 28-07-2021, 02:16   #101
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Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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Absolutely correct, but this is not how Joe public (first time yacht buyer) perceives it.


First time yacht buyers rarely cross oceans and dangerous sea areas in my experience

By the time they do , one would expect them to have a modicum of understanding of what type of boat they are sailing in and a knowledge of the risks.

Ocean sailors in small boats take risks , because conditions or circumstances can arise that will overwhelm any boat and or crew. It requires reasonable appropriate experience to judge the risk , now and then it goes wrong , thankfully rarely enough these days.
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Old 28-07-2021, 03:20   #102
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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First time yacht buyers rarely cross oceans and dangerous sea areas in my experience

By the time they do , one would expect them to have a modicum of understanding of what type of boat they are sailing in and a knowledge of the risks.

Ocean sailors in small boats take risks , because conditions or circumstances can arise that will overwhelm any boat and or crew. It requires reasonable appropriate experience to judge the risk , now and then it goes wrong , thankfully rarely enough these days.

Oh how wrong you are. I was in the Canary Islands a few years back when the ARC were getting ready to leave. Many, most, if not nearly all were new boat owners. A number had purchased their boat at the Southampton Boat Show, had it delivered to the Canaries and the first time they had set foot on-board was there. For one of these the wife's safety equipment was a healthy supply of Valium. But hey, the organisers check that your flares are in date, don't they? I have also had the misfortune to meet holders of so called fast track sailing qualifications who think they know it all because of the certificate.



The problem today is that sailors in small boats no longer believe they are taking risks, because the boat has a certificate and they have a certificate and the government will warn them about anything that could possibly do them harm. Like signs warning you not to go too near the edge of crumbling cliffs.
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Old 28-07-2021, 18:27   #103
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

While not wanting to be to critical the Maritime NZ report didnt really look to closely at the MET services to see if there were improvements that could be made. So maybe a missed opportunity
While MET coverage is generally very good we have been caught out on more than one occasion by their understating of conditions and a delayed update when conditions were changing
I know there are other services available -windy.com for example - but that doesnt mean that a Govt funded service should not be the best it possibly can and continually improving.
There is also a bit of friction and overlap as we have two govt. entities - Met service and NIWA both providing forecasting services which in my view is not ideal

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Old 28-07-2021, 23:01   #104
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

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The problem today is that sailors in small boats no longer believe they are taking risks, because the boat has a certificate and they have a certificate and the government will warn them about anything that could possibly do them harm. Like signs warning you not to go too near the edge of crumbling cliffs.
No sailor I've ever met thinks like this!

The recreational craft directive is superb. A great step in the right direction of making it easier for sailors to evaluate what they are actually buying. (Also, it is a good step towards having the industry make more ecologically sustainable products.)

On the other hand, having a CE A labeled boat obviously is not the only sufficient prerequisite for being able to safely go out sailing.

In the accident report, they talk about the old version of the RCD (according to which the boat was built). The current general category statement (which excludes storms and extreme sea conditions) is:

Quote:
A recreational craft given design category A is considered to be designed for winds that may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave height of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, such as storm, violent storm, hurricane, tornado and extreme sea conditions or rogue waves.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...X%3A32013L0053
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Old 28-07-2021, 23:47   #105
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Re: Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

I really don't understand this fixation on certs, nobody I know buys a boat looking at certification (however I don't know anybody who has bought a new boat) and the NZ maritime authorities when surveying for NZ offshore compliance would barely rate that consideration as they know their onerous requirements are in excess of any production factory spec.
Unfortunately, given that, they must feel some sort of obligation to incorporate any suggestions resulting from this sort of investigation.
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