Maritime NZ report into the loss of the yacht Essence, October 2019

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Why set off into a known storm

There was was not a storm warning. Only a gale warning was issued.

Gale is Beaufort force 8
Severe gale is Beaufort force 9
Storm is a Beaufort force 10
Violent storm is Beaufort force 11
Hurricane force wind is Beaufort force 12

This was the forecast from the report:

[goboatingnow]

Sorry typo I meant I experienced several 90 degree knockdowns

[goboatingnow]

The fitting of storm boards that existed on the boat was a skippers decision nothing to do with the basic boat itself

One cannot blame the boat or Bavaria for not fitting the storm boards.

[goboatingnow]

And yes I’m curious as to why no effort was made to stream warps and try and prevent broaching

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

It verifies my original statement that yachts in the EU are built to the Minimum Possible Standard to comply with CE conformity..

As opposed to the Lloyds 100A1 which is a build to the highest standard.

I never said anything else..

Its you that is jumping on a soap box to desperately try and refute a fact..

There are several classification societies that arguably build to higher specifications ( in some areas ) such as ABS , Det Norse Veritas( which a lot of super yachts are built to ) etc.

None of these are practical to apply to high volume series built small recreational yachts. There are designed to certify each boat separately

Most of these classifications would add enormous cost to such yachts for very little gain to the vast majority of buyers.

Maybe there is an argument that RCD should add a Class A1 , but would anyone offer yachts against it. Would the costs simply rule out buyers.

Ultimately it’s buyer beware. An experienced boat owner will understand the limits of a given design or construction or the state of maintenance or the peculiarities of any given boat. Based on that they should act conservatively and take appropriate decisions and equally ensure they have the necessary support equipment and use it.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

There are several classification societies that arguably build to higher specifications ( in some areas ) such as ABS , Det Norse Veritas( which a lot of super yachts are built to ) etc.

None of these are practical to apply to high volume series built small recreational yachts. There are designed to certify each boat separately

Most of these classifications would add enormous cost to such yachts for very little gain to the vast majority of buyers.

Maybe there is an argument that RCD should add a Class A1 , but would anyone offer yachts against it. Would the costs simply rule out buyers.

Ultimately it’s buyer beware. An experienced boat owner will understand the limits of a given design or construction or the state of maintenance or the peculiarities of any given boat. Based on that they should act conservatively and take appropriate decisions and equally ensure they have the necessary support equipment and use it.

And the market is full of experienced sailors buying expensive Water boats">Blue water boats..

[250224]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry typo I meant I experienced several 90 degree knockdowns

ok, thanks. I already feared for your health, 90 knockdowns would give lots of bruises

[Hoodsail]

Always thought the larger windows on recent models of what are characterized as blue water boats (eg oyster 56 and hylas 54) didnt make sense as the two should be mutually exclusive. Evidenced by the investigation noting, "...During the knockdown, crew below described hearing a booming noise, seeing the starboard windows explode outwards followed by an inundation of water, and being in knee and thigh-deep water". Commented as much to "Sail" magazine as they profiled a number of new builds as "blue water" with windows the size or possibly larger than Essence's...thnks

PS...not trying to pick on oyster's or hylas's just the models I found recent pics of...

[NevilleCat]

But is it realistic to assume storm boards fixed in a conventional manner would have made any difference?
Whether from an explosive internal pressure forcing them outwards or from massive flexing of the cabin structure, it seems unlikely that storm boards as given in the example in the report would have made any difference.
I can't imagine the sort of engineering required to make them strong enough under those circumstances.
Squabbles about certification process would seem of minor significance if you are consistently being knocked down and dropping off 5m seas; surely we understand that boats are not designed to withstand these conditions forever.
So now it is yet another expensive and painful addition you are required to adhere to if you want to go offshore with a NZ boat; to have storm boards fitted before you leave. Obviously you aren't going to use the marine plywood ones you have stored under the settee as the forecast is for light winds all next week and you want to see outside, so I guess you will need to make up acrylic ones etc etc.
To take this logic further, if they were towing a Jordan Series Drogue then they wouldn't have been broaching and falling of 5m waves so let's make that a requirement; that you must at all times be towing a JSD when you go offshore.

[chrisr]

maybe the whole storm board idea needs to be re-thunk

why do we need storm boards ? only because boats have windows ! so if NZ simply bans windows altogether there won't be any hassles with the storm boards !

problem solved...

(ps in case anyone misses it, i'm being sarcastic. remember "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.")

cheers,

[NevilleCat]

[Anders]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And the Market Protection Farce continues..

Owners and brokers of second hand boats, who want to sell between the UK and the EU, will face an additional bill of between £500-£5,000 for a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification.

Both the UK and EU have confirmed that any vessel being traded second-hand between the UK and EU will be required to meet the obligations set out in either the Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) in the EU or the Recreational Craft Regulations (RCR) in the UK when placed on either market after the 1 January 2021.

A pre-owned vessel being imported from the EU to be placed on the UK market will, after 1 January 2022 (due to the one year grace period the UK has given to CE marked new products being placed on the UK market), be required to obtain a new UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) mark in line with the requirements of the RCR.

In order to obtain a UKCA mark, a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification.

Similar rules will apply when selling vessels into the EU.

Pre-owned CE marked vessels which were in the UK at the end of the Brexit transition period (31 December 2020), when exported to the EU will be required to undergo a recertification of the CE mark when being placed on the EU market.

It's not only boats that needs recertification but almost everything will ned to have a UKCA mark after 1 January 2022 when sold in the UK. In most cases the the standards are similar or identical and it's often only a paper excersice but it is a rather expensive paper excersice.

[Hoodsail]

Originally Posted by chrisr

maybe the whole storm board idea needs to be re-thunk

why do we need storm boards ? only because boats have windows ! so if NZ simply bans windows altogether there won't be any hassles with the storm boards !

problem solved...

(ps in case anyone misses it, i'm being sarcastic. remember "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.")

cheers,

ChrisR; couldnt agree with you more what with the tech advances in boating. Thinking a wall with 144 inch screen that is connected wirelessly to multiple "periscopes", remotely controlled by external sensors. With split screen could see oncoming rouge waves whether port/starboard/aft/etc, with appropriate alarms that characterize the height/configuration of wave allowing helmsman to react (wirelessly) as needed, all in the comfort of their salon. Need for costly weather gear">foul weather gear no longer an issue as a byproduct of such enhancements.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

ChrisR; couldnt agree with you more what with the tech advances in boating. Thinking a wall with 144 inch screen that is connected wirelessly to multiple "periscopes", remotely controlled by external sensors. With split screen could see oncoming rouge waves whether port/starboard/aft/etc, with appropriate alarms that characterize the height/configuration of wave allowing helmsman to react (wirelessly) as needed, all in the comfort of their salon. Need for costly foul weather gear no longer an issue as a byproduct of such enhancements.

excellent !

but i think the logical extension of this is connected with remote control ie why actually incur the danger of leaving home ? stay safe n sound on your couch and control the boat remotely !

in fact, maybe be we all don't need boats at all...we can have 'virtual' boats...so much safer, as a crew-less remote control boat might collide with a manatee or such...

cheers,

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Anders

It's not only boats that needs recertification but almost everything will ned to have a UKCA mark after 1 January 2022 when sold in the UK. In most cases the the standards are similar or identical and it's often only a paper excersice but it is a rather expensive paper excersice.

Nothing about Brexit is a benefit that’s for sure ( well ok 2litres of gin in Stanstead was only £20)