Marion Bermuda Race: Questions

[jbinbi]

Considering this years Marion Bermuda Race, have some questions for those who have done it.

Crew would be 5 (that is minimum you can have) on 38' cat. All between 65-70. All have 50+ years of sailing. One has extensive racing experience, but coastal only. Others have raced dinghies a long time ago. All have done no more than 48 continuous hours of sailing on watches, that was a few years ago, and we decided it is painful at our ages.

We have also decided that we are not in it to win it, we are not going to race 24 hrs a day. No continuous triming etc. But not sloppy handling either. If the forecast before the race starts is too snotty, say 25+ on the nose, we probably won't do it at all. Basically looking at this like a non stop sailing cruise.

Questions: From a pilot chart I looked at, looks like winds are s/sw/w for 75% chance, mostly at 10-15. Course looks to be about 160, so if from the S, will be a beat, the boat at 10-15 will do 6-8. On a reach at 10-15, the boat will do 8-10kts w the screecher. So I figure the 650 mi should be between 3.5 to 5.5 days.

What is a good watch schedule for 5 people? We were thinking of 2hr watches at night, 1 person at the wheel, a person in the salon who can try to sleep but needs to be up if help is needed. This would cover 10 hrs, say from 2100 to 0700 for night. We can continue to run it during the day as well. So this gives 2 hrs of being ready, 2 hrs on, then 6 hours off, but it rotates through different times each day. Is this OK?

Course: The GS seems to be active for just a portion of the trip, which means sailing a course more S through it, and more into the wind. Or is it better to just go thru it on course then tack back later. Don't know what would make an easier ride.

Any other advice you can give? On the fence about doing this, more of a bucket list, but somewhat pricey as well.

[ChrisOwens]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Considering this years Marion Bermuda Race, have some questions for those who have done it.

Crew would be 5 (that is minimum you can have) on 38' cat. All between 65-70. All have 50+ years of sailing. One has extensive racing experience, but coastal only. Others have raced dinghies a long time ago. All have done no more than 48 continuous hours of sailing on watches, that was a few years ago, and we decided it is painful at our ages.

We have also decided that we are not in it to win it, we are not going to race 24 hrs a day. No continuous triming etc. But not sloppy handling either. If the forecast before the race starts is too snotty, say 25+ on the nose, we probably won't do it at all. Basically looking at this like a non stop sailing cruise.

Questions: From a pilot chart I looked at, looks like winds are s/sw/w for 75% chance, mostly at 10-15. Course looks to be about 160, so if from the S, will be a beat, the boat at 10-15 will do 6-8. On a reach at 10-15, the boat will do 8-10kts w the screecher. So I figure the 650 mi should be between 3.5 to 5.5 days.

What is a good watch schedule for 5 people? We were thinking of 2hr watches at night, 1 person at the wheel, a person in the salon who can try to sleep but needs to be up if help is needed. This would cover 10 hrs, say from 2100 to 0700 for night. We can continue to run it during the day as well. So this gives 2 hrs of being ready, 2 hrs on, then 6 hours off, but it rotates through different times each day. Is this OK?

Course: The GS seems to be active for just a portion of the trip, which means sailing a course more S through it, and more into the wind. Or is it better to just go thru it on course then tack back later. Don't know what would make an easier ride.

Any other advice you can give? On the fence about doing this, more of a bucket list, but somewhat pricey as well.

Absolutely you and as many crewmembers as possible should do the CCA Safety-at-sea seminar. It's a day of classroom (I believe that can be done online) and a day of practical. Things like jumping into a pool in your weather gear">foul weather gear and climbing into a liferaft.



My favorite moment from one about 25 years ago in prep for a Bermuda race: Rich du Moulin (I think) asked the audience, "How many of you have sailed your boat at hull speed under bare poles?" Pretty much everyone with gray hair raised their hands, and the younger sailors looked around with a kind of "holy ****!" expression on their faces.



As for your watch schedule, I'd try to have 2 in the cockpit. It's creepily, scarily lonely to be by yourself on the helm at 0400 on a breezy night. Everyone's nightmare scenario is waking from a nap, looking aft, and seeing the boat chugging along on autopilot and the cockpit empty.

[psk125]

First, be aware that the Gulf Stream off Massachusetts is not just a stream cutting across your path the way it is along the Florida coast. It acts more like a loose fire hose, forming swirls (called eddies) on both sides of the main stream. The eddies can turn at 2-3 knots, going either clockwise or counterclockwise. If you run into an eddy in the right place it will carry you along with it in the southerly direction you want to go. If you run into it in the wrong place (say 15 miles further east or west) it can slow you down by 2-3 knots and push you in the wrong direction. If the wind cooperates the sea can be smooth. With a 20 knot wind against the current one night we had 8' waves about every five seconds. Beating at eight knots we ended up sailing out of almost every other wave. It was a rough night. At about 02h00 the rain stopped and the seas smoothed out a touch, so our speed increased and we were quite pleased. Then the navigator stuck his head out of the companionway hatch and said "We're out of the eddy. Tack." We tacked, and 30 seconds later it was raining again and we were falling off the top of every other wave. The navigator figured that the current, going against the wind, pushed us about 40 miles all told towards Bermuda. We won our division.
The thing is that once you're out there, "holding off" is not always an option. Stuff happens and you have to deal with it. At one point (on a different trip) we had three waterspouts in sight at the same time.
Winds generally are from the SW. That is supposedly why so many boats have their galleys to port -- so that they're to leeward for the trip to Bermuda.
For watches we've found a rotating system where you're on for four hours but have a new watch stander come up every two hours keeps people fresh while giving everyone plenty of time to rest. With five people it would work like this:
A comes on at 12h00, goes off at 16h00
B comes on at 14h00, goes off at 18h00
C comes on at 16h00, goes off at 20h00
D comes on at 18h00, goes off at 22h00
E comes on at 20h00, goes off at 24h00
A comes on at 22h00, goes off at 02h00,
B comes on at 24h00, goes off at 04h00 etc.
This gives each crew 4 hours on and 6 hours off, while rotating the shifts so that no one gets the same time slot two days in a row. Is this what you were condsidering?
Marion-Bermuda ist theoretically less pressure than Newport-Bermuda, but with dinghy sailors in your crew, don't think they won't be pushing.

[jbinbi]

Thanks. I am one of the dinghy sailors, lasers back in the earlyv70s. These days it's all about the ap. Put it in wind mode and never have to trim.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[SailingHarmonie]

Thank you! The original question and the answers so far posted have once again help clarify for me why I have sailed for 30 years with ZERO interest in racing.

If you want to sail to Bermuda with four of your friends, just GO! Pick a comfortable weather window and sail—FOR FUN! Love the ocean, and enjoy the trip. Who cares about other boats????

I am ALMOST as old as the crew you describe. I do not have enough time on this planet to wait on the “race committee” to tell me when to leave.

The fretting about the watch schedule with a crew of five aboard is especially funny. My partner and I sail our boat on ocean passages. Just the two of us. Longest passage 21 days. Somehow we manage. Actually, we don’t just “manage” we LOVE passage making. I should think a crew of five could work out a workable watch schedule for 4 or 5 days.

[jbinbi]

Two great posts on Bermuda transit before someone has to tell you how to live your sailing life. Must be a record. Never understood why people who can't just answer your questions have to post.

[phorvati]

What are you going to do if it blows 25 on the nose 2-3 days into the race?

[Scubaseas]

Agree with psk125. Did a trip Bahamas to NY with 5 persons the 4 on 6 off works fine and still works if someone goes down for seasickness, etc.

[MicHughV]

Bermuda has the reputation of being very tricky to get there. For sure, the meanderings of the Gulf Stream will play a part.

It's almost a given, that somewhere along the line, either getting there or returning you will experience some adverse weather. Might last a day or two. If you want to sail on a mill pond, stay home, but if you want to have some "ocean experience" give it go.

However, the race is usually in June, by which time, reasonably weather is to be expected.

If you are not racing per se, you have the option of just taking it easy, slow the boat, put the fishing lines out, etc, but the sooner you get there, the less chance if having to deal with adverse weather, so that is something to bear in mind. My advice would be to keep the boat moving as fast as can reasonably expected.

The first few days will always be a bit rough, as crew get acclimatized to the motion of the boat and standing watches, especially, the midnight watches. 5 people on a 38' boat is a lot, and the boat may jump around a bit, but after that, you'll find it's just another day out on the ocean. 6' swells will seem pretty "normal" to you after a while.

I've sailed to Bermuda three times, and every trip I've had to batten down the hatches for a few days. That's sailing for you. You may also experience flat calms.

Interestingly, in a race, by the next morning. you are unlikely to see another boat till you get there.

If you are doing only 100 miles per day piddling around, that is almost a week to get there. Remember, you won't always be sailing on a direct course, so count on and plan for at least 7 days. Keeping the hammer down can shorten that number.

Getting to Bermuda is quite an achievement, so give it go. It will give you some "blue water" sailing experience that you will remember for a long time.

Finally, yes, Bermuda can be a pricey place to hang out as everything must be imported there. Tradition holds that you down a "dark 'n stormy" on arrival.

Leaving Bermuda can be done on your own schedule, so you have the option of picking a good weather window.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Thanks. I am one of the dinghy sailors, lasers back in the earlyv70s. These days it's all about the ap. Put it in wind mode and never have to trim.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

As far as I know, it is a fully crewed race, and the use of autopilots is not allowed.

The crew on deck should be a minimum of 2 people; a helmsman and a sail trimmer.

The sail trimmer and equipment shall be capable of blowing the mainsheet and the sheet of any screecher, code zero, or asym within.one.second!!

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by phorvati

What are you going to do if it blows 25 on the nose 2-3 days into the race?

Tack a bunch I guess?

We don't want to do the race if the forecast calls for 5 days of 25+ from the S.

On the other hand, we have 200+ yrs of sailing experience, we have all been out in really snotty weather. Sailing in 8' seas is something we have all done. If it pops up, ok.

OTH, Sailing for 5 days in 6 x 6 is not something we want to do on purpose. When you have 6' waves, its not the height, but the period that gets you.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[MicHughV]

Well, if you want to hear a horror story. On my last trip there, after leaving Bermuda, I was headed south to the Caribbean, when I got caught in a horrendous storm, about three-four days out.

That was the first and only time, I've had to run under bare poles dragging a makeshift droque to slow me down. I could not say where this weather came from, but winds were in the 60 knot range with seas running 15-18'. The worst of it was about 18 hours long. I was blown 100 miles off course.

So, these things can happen. This particular event was in July.

It was wet and wooly ride for sure, but the boat did fine. We were only 2 on the boat, so after a while, exhaustion became a factor, but with 5 on board, shouldn't be a problem.

[Snore]

A few suggestions-- first play with the routing in Predict Wind. It is the best product out there and will give

Second buy a copy of Luck Grib, including the satellite option. It is cheap and can use emailed GRIB files (See #3). These two steps will let you understand how best to route the vessel you will run during the race. Data from forums is dodgy at best, whether routing software is better.

Third- check the rules. Most allow you to use weather from "publicly available sources", and require routing calculations to be done on board. If that is the case, you can use an iridium email account to query and auto-responder with GFS weather data. If you download the FREE GS GRIB, that can be used when offshore to route.

Four-assuming #3 proves per my assumptions, purchase, or rent, an Iridium GO to get weather.

Five- look at the old tracks! Go into the archives of the race website and you can see numerous yellow brick tracks from previous races.

If you are looking for crew, I know a pro you might get for expenses!!

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by Snore

A few suggestions-- first play with the routing in Predict Wind. It is the best product out there and will give

Second buy a copy of Luck Grib, including the satellite option. It is cheap and can use emailed GRIB files (See #3). These two steps will let you understand how best to route the vessel you will run during the race. Data from forums is dodgy at best, whether routing software is better.

Third- check the rules. Most allow you to use weather from "publicly available sources", and require routing calculations to be done on board. If that is the case, you can use an iridium email account to query and auto-responder with GFS weather data. If you download the FREE GS GRIB, that can be used when offshore to route.

Four-assuming #3 proves per my assumptions, purchase, or rent, an Iridium GO to get weather.

Five- look at the old tracks! Go into the archives of the race website and you can see numerous yellow brick tracks from previous races.

If you are looking for crew, I know a pro you might get for expenses!!

Thanks for the inputs. AS for crew, as I mentioned, we are not really racing. We will be part of the race, but this is a journey for us to complete.