Living on board during Great Lakes winters

[Tmacmi]

My wife and I are having a little debate about the possibility of living on board a sailboat year round on Lake St. Clair in Michigan (middleish Michigan).

I have suggested its possible with a bubbler system, a heater system and a composting toilet. I've certainly seen it on the Baltic coast.

What is the feedback? Could it be a relatively comfortable solution?

Has anybody on the Great Lakes here done it?

Thanks in advance

[Nicholson58]

Check around your marina. Many do not allow winter residence. The lakes and approaches freeze. You will not be able to move. The lifts shut down and are winterized. There is no snow removal on docks, parking lots. Marina gates are locked. Many marinas turn off dock power. All water is shut off and pipes drained.

[Mike OReilly]

I know of quite a lot of who do it on the Canadian side of Lake Ontario. I considered doing it, but decided against.

Lake St. Clair is a lot smaller, and more shallow. I don't know what kind of freezing you normally get, but I bet the water gets pretty hard. Maybe it can be done with bubblers, but I'd check with the marinas.

I considered doing this in Lake Ontario, but decided it would be more about enduring than enjoying. But maybe I missed something...

[Lake-Effect]

There's usually 3 or 4 live-aboard boats that stay in-water over the winter at our club on Lake Ontario. The club puts in circulators to stop freezeup, and the boats have clear wrap on a frame over the boat to help retain heat.

Our liveaboards have the run of the clubhouse including washrooms. Still, Great Lakes winter liveaboard doesn't seem like my idea of fun. It mainly seems like a cost savings for those who can't or won't cough up for a winter place.

[valhalla360]

Yes, there are crazy people who do it. One cat on Belle Isle has a big transparent tent set up and on sunny days, you will see them hanging out in the cockpit.

But most marinas aren't going to be keen on it for a variety of reasons:
- Liability if you fall in the water.
- Who shovels the docks?
- How do you get water to the boat?
- How do you get poo off the boat?
- How is electricity charged...especially if you are using electric heating?
- Does heavy electric heating create a fire risk?
- What happens if power goes out and the bubblers shut down?

Again, we know people who do it...but lots of hassles and the ones we've met are all a bit "off".

[Chotu]

I’ve done this in salt water in Maine.

It’s a rewarding experience, but I’d think twice about doing it in fresh water because it freezes solid so much easier.

[boatpoker]

Between cruising forays I've been doing this since 94' in Lake Ontario. Probably 15 - 16 winters here and stuck once again due to Covid. Love the quiet of winter onboard when all the dirt people have left. There are a few tricks to it but we love the life and Dirt People scare us.

[Spindrift NH]

As others have said, the hardy souls have done it. The real question is, maybe the “little debate” with your wife is really her saying that she’s not into it? If she’s not committed/experienced with the lifestyle this might not be the way to get her to buy into it.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

As others have said, the hardy souls have done it. The real question is, maybe the “little debate” with your wife is really her saying that she’s not into it? If she’s not committed/experienced with the lifestyle this might not be the way to get her to buy into it.

Very true. If your wife is not into it as much as you it will be a short ride.
We've seen couples abandon ship within weeks of the first freeze.

PS. There is nothing cheap about this. It costs us about the same as a nice one bedroom apartment in Port Credit.

[Jerry Luck]

I lived aboard my trawler for 4 years winter and summer at Emerald City Harbor, St.Clair Shores,Mi. In the covered wells across from Jacks (now Brownies) Single at the time and loved it!! Call Sue 586 772 4200. for availability and tell her Jerry Luck said Hi! My trawler Mahi Mahi now is in Little River SC waiting for my wife and I to winter south!!
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[Iduna]

You should go to what I believe is Island Harbor Marina and ask around.

There is a whole section of boats that I pass coming out from Emerald City Marina who appear to be year-round liveaboards. They're all down the pier off of Ridgeway St.

It's not exactly a glamorous looking set of boats, but they should be able to help answer any questions about the technicalities and lifestyle.

[-OvO-]

Your own compost is unlikely to generate enough heat to keep you warm. You will need to acquire large quantities of additional compost.

[garyfdl]

To those who have lived onboard in the frozen north I'm wondering:

How much problem is condensation and how did you control it?

People, cooking, etc generate a lot of water vapor. Having lived onboard into the late fall I found 'rain' in the cabin was a normal occurrence, especially on really cold mornings. Keeping air moving helped, but I was never able to control it completely. I would think that wintering over would be a constant battle against moisture and subsequent mold and mildew.

[rslifkin]

Wintering without heat would be a big challenge for condensation. If you can keep the boat heated even 15 degrees above outside temperature, it'll be fairly easy to keep humidity down. Electric cooking if possible also reduces moisture input.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

To those who have lived onboard in the frozen north I'm wondering:

How much problem is condensation and how did you control it?

People, cooking, etc generate a lot of water vapor. Having lived onboard into the late fall I found 'rain' in the cabin was a normal occurrence, especially on really cold mornings. Keeping air moving helped, but I was never able to control it completely. I would think that wintering over would be a constant battle against moisture and subsequent mold and mildew.

Almost all of my friends are or were long term (decades) liveaboards between Toronto and Hamilton on Lake Ontario. I've often heard of this condensation and mold issue but have never experienced it and never seen it on my friends boats.

My first wife lived onboard with me for 20yrs with virtually no immune system. This would not have been possible with condenstation and mold onboard. She eventually sucummed to an infection from dental work.

Ventilation (of boat and shrinkwrap), heat, insulation and constantly moving air is the answer. Our propane stove is directly under our hatch so on the rare occasion it does cause excess humidity we open the hatch.

Once shrinkwrapped our boat is so dry that we have to run a humidifier and still struggle to get humidity to the "normal" range.

As you can see, photo below is under the shrinkwrap