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12-12-2017, 15:40
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: On the Water
Boat: 53' Cutter
Posts: 193
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lochner
Then there are those who advocate hiding assets in offshore shell companies and banks. Holding other assets in multiple states under different corporate shells ostensibly to protect their assets while not carrying liability insurance. This seems to be a person of a very different character, the message this person appears to be sending is "Too bad, so sad if I injured you. You won't get anything from me." "Tough luck, it sucks to be you." This attitude does not seem to be a sound basis for a civil society.
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Do I protect my assets with corporations? You bet!
Do I use offshore banks? You bet!
Do I carry certain insurance? You bet!
Do I not carry other types of insurance? You bet!
Am I advocating irresponsibility for individual actions? Absolutely not!
My personal ways of conducting myself were not an indication of how you can expect to be treated by me if I am responsible for damage to someone's property or person. You inferred that all on your own. I never advocated dodging responsibility.
However, I have personal experience with uninsured boaters, drivers, and everyday people. I was trying to drive home a point that just because you believe someone should carry insurance to protect you, it is simply not the reality you will experience outside of first world countries (and from personal experience not even within, in many cases.) And no matter how much you want it to be so, it is just not going to happen. There are many of those who are uninsured, and those that hide behind a veil, and will absolutely not be responsible for their actions. THAT is why you carry insurance for uninsured. Not because of me, because you do not know me, but because you are more risk averse than I am.
As far as your desire for a "civil society," that is a utopian pipe dream that has never occurred in the history of mankind, and never will. Keep your insurance up to date.
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12-12-2017, 15:52
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,662
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
I only know you by what you write (here) Dave. You come across as rather black and white in this discussion, but I appreciate it is hard to convey nuance in an online forum. I bet we would both come across better if this were happening over a couple of beers
Like I said, if you want to make the risk/mitigation/cost argument around 3rd party liability insurance, then I ain’t got no problem. It’s when you (and others) start claiming the moral high ground, and worse, demeaning those who dare to think differently, that my nose gets out of joint.
I carry liability insurance on my only home, which is my boat, because it passes the cost/benefit threshold. It is pretty cheap. But if the cost were to increase significantly it may fall below this benchmark.
My personal opinion, based on my own modest cruising experience, is that I would much rather hang with knowledgable boaters who demonstrate how to mitigate risk (good seamanship), rather than cruisers who’s primary tool is insurance policies and law suits. When I see another cruiser come in and anchor close to me I can usually tell if they know what they’re doing by their actions and their equipment. To me, THIS is what shows respect for others, not some insurance policy.
… but I accept not everyone thinks my way. And I don’t go around calling them foolish or irresponsible.
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05-12-2024, 10:53
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Boy did this get off topic. There an obvious scenario where someone might want to insure a boat for just haulout and layup. Let's say I buy a boat that is not seawortjy in it's current condition. It will be impossible to get regular marine insurance. So in order to do repairs it needs to be layed up on the hard while it undergoes repairs and many marinas require both liability and hull coverage while on the hard. So asking who can provide insurance in this scenario until the boat can pass a survey and launched is a completely question and I am disappointed that this discussion trailed off into the merits of insuring your boat. Basically, that was never the question and I don't care about anyone's morals here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
I only know you by what you write (here) Dave. You come across as rather black and white in this discussion, but I appreciate it is hard to convey nuance in an online forum. I bet we would both come across better if this were happening over a couple of beers
Like I said, if you want to make the risk/mitigation/cost argument around 3rd party liability insurance, then I ain’t got no problem. It’s when you (and others) start claiming the moral high ground, and worse, demeaning those who dare to think differently, that my nose gets out of joint.
I carry liability insurance on my only home, which is my boat, because it passes the cost/benefit threshold. It is pretty cheap. But if the cost were to increase significantly it may fall below this benchmark.
My personal opinion, based on my own modest cruising experience, is that I would much rather hang with knowledgable boaters who demonstrate how to mitigate risk (good seamanship), rather than cruisers who’s primary tool is insurance policies and law suits. When I see another cruiser come in and anchor close to me I can usually tell if they know what they’re doing by their actions and their equipment. To me, THIS is what shows respect for others, not some insurance policy.
… but I accept not everyone thinks my way. And I don’t go around calling them foolish or irresponsible.
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05-12-2024, 11:40
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,662
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsteele
Boy did this get off topic. There an obvious scenario where someone might want to insure a boat for just haulout and layup. Let's say I buy a boat that is not seawortjy in it's current condition. It will be impossible to get regular marine insurance. So in order to do repairs it needs to be layed up on the hard while it undergoes repairs and many marinas require both liability and hull coverage while on the hard. So asking who can provide insurance in this scenario until the boat can pass a survey and launched is a completely question and I am disappointed that this discussion trailed off into the merits of insuring your boat. Basically, that was never the question and I don't care about anyone's morals here.
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Bizarre that you would bother to reference an old insurance thread, let alone quote from a discussion that ended nearly eight years ago. Especially odd for someone who is new here.
Discussions evolve over time. If you actually read the thread (as you claim) you can easily see how this moved.
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05-12-2024, 11:49
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
Bizarre that you would bother to reference an old insurance thread, let alone quote from a discussion that ended nearly eight years ago. Especially odd for someone who is new here.
Discussions evolve over time. If you actually read the thread (as you claim) you can easily see how this moved.
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I saw how it moved. Old thread or not the discussion turned non productive and barely answered the original question. Besides, I don't see any rules against replying to an old thread.
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05-12-2024, 11:54
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,662
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsteele
I saw how it moved. Old thread or not the discussion turned non productive and barely answered the original question. Besides, I don't see any rules against replying to an old thread.
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I didn't say it was against any rules. I said it was "bizarre" and "odd."
It seems like you are new to forum discussions. They are just that: discussions. Discussions tend to evolve over time. If you find this irksome, this is probably not the place for you.
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05-12-2024, 11:56
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Clearly you have little of anything productive to offer, but felt the need to reply. If you find my comments irksome, perhaps it's not the place for you.
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05-12-2024, 12:02
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,662
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsteele
Clearly you have little of anything productive to offer, but felt the need to reply. If you find my comments irksome, perhaps it's not the place for you.
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I responded because you quoted me. Maybe that's another aspect of forum usage that you don't understand. Again, maybe get a little experience before passing judgment.
Clearly no point carrying on with you. Hope you stick around and learn a little. If not, be well...
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05-12-2024, 12:09
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
I didn't say it was against any rules. I said it was "bizarre" and "odd."
It seems like you are new to forum discussions. They are just that: discussions. Discussions tend to evolve over time. If you find this irksome, this is probably not the place for you.
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What's stranger is my comment wasn't even really about you. It was the conversation trailing off to discussing the merit of how you choose to insure your boat. You had a scenario which fit the discussion, but instead of discuss other scenarios and insurers who could help, people felt the need to needless argue with you rather than fully discuss the topic at hand. That's not really a you problem. You were just the last one on the thread so I replied to you. So I don't really see the point on arguing. More useful is knowing what insurers can provide coverage for a haulout and layup for repair only policy for a boat that isn't seaworthy or insurable.
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05-12-2024, 12:16
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 6
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
I responded because you quoted me. Maybe that's another aspect of forum usage that you don't understand. Again, maybe get a little experience before passing judgment.
Clearly no point carrying on with you. Hope you stick around and learn a little. If not, be well...
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Who cares if I quoted you. Lot's of forums handle quoting differently, some do it automatically wothout any other option . It really wouldn't have changed the context much. You chose to take my comment as an attack on you just because you were quoted. It wasn't. Reviving an old thread that is still open, especially, when the topic was never fully discussed is not strange. It's logical and done often enough. I'll keep using forums as I see fit. Thanks. Bye now.
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08-12-2024, 05:54
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#41
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Boat: Seafox 236cc, looking for Carver 44-50' or Silverton 453
Posts: 156
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Re: Liability insurance for boat haulout and storage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Ray
I searched for this specific question but came up with nothing.
Does anyone know a company that offers marine liability insurance? I'm looking specifically for a policy that just indemnifies a Yard for haulout, work and storage.
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Saw you posted this a while ago...any luck? if not give me a holler, it's what I do. There are Port Only Risk policies avail if you only need coverage while on in the marina or on the hard. Once you untie you are on your own but covered while sittin still in the marina. Good luck!!!
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