% legal holding tank dumping?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I'd say 20 - 25% of the thousands of boats I've surveyed in the Great Lakes were pumping overboard. I think of the hundreds of huge regattas I've witnessed with 3 - 10 people on board at PCYC with dock cart loads of beer and never saw one go the the pumpout when they came back in.

Pumpouts in the NY State Canal System are either free or $2 .... In the Ontario canals .... $30 - $40. Whadayathink is happening ?

There are some things I just don't want to know ...🤮.

And is that really the going fee for a pump out in Ontario these days!?! It's been nearly a decade since I've had to worry about getting one, I guess I've lost touch with the price. I'll have to add that to my composting head "advantages" list. At that price, even the more expensive commercial versions could pay for themselves over a few seasons.

[zemurray]

I’ve often questioned the enforcement of overboard discharge myself. Where we are in Florida, there are very few pump out stations. hurricanes have destroyed many. There are entire bays that I know have only 1 or even no pump outs. In Pensacola Bay there are a few. In St. Andrews bay there is only 1 working pump out. in Port St. Joe, none. In apalachicola bay, only 1 way up in Carabelle. I’ve called all around when we’ve gone coastal crusing trying to find them. it was very stressful with my small 12 gallon holding tank and no macerator. We used to just pee overboard and tried to minimize usage, switch the Y valve as soon as we got off shore if going on the outside etc. It was the most stressful thing about boat ownership to me.

I know people in our old marina were discharging overboard. One guy would do it all the time and claimed his “finger slipped”. You would smell it. And the ridiculous thing about it was that marina actually had a pump out. All he had to do was pay the $15. I see tons of boats out anchored for days with several people on board, never get pump outs.

We finally installed the Raritan Purasan EX. Better than the Electroscan, less maintenance. Highly recommended by Peggie Hall. My wife thinks its the best upgrade we’ve done to the boat. I describe this system to lots of people I talk to. Maybe one in 50 has any idea what I’m talking about. So I think its pretty save to say that those using a proper CG approved MSD is pretty small.

As far as using it and swimming. As mentioned before, there is lots of stuff in the water and a bit of treated waste is minuscule in comparison to things you would rather be concerned about. We do have a rule that no one uses the head while others are in the water near by. I have watched when we use it in clear water and there isn’t much that gets put in the water that the current doesnt whisk away in a few seconds. I feel much better about this than those who are dumping 25 gallon holding tanks illegally in the anchorage. We have never discharged illegally.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I'd say 20 - 25% of the thousands of boats I've surveyed in the Great Lakes were pumping overboard. I think of the hundreds of huge regattas I've witnessed with 3 - 10 people on board at PCYC with dock cart loads of beer and never saw one go the the pumpout when they came back in.

Pumpouts in the NY State Canal System are either free or $2 .... In the Ontario canals .... $30 - $40. Whadayathink is happening ?

I'd guess the same in places I've boated - SF Bay and ICW. My hunch is many people try to follow the rules, but when it's not convenient, they hit the macerator switch knowing chance of being caught is near zero. I'd guess the percentage of people who are >95% compliant is pretty low (excludes cruisers in locations without rules)

[Midwesterner]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Then all the guys have to "discretely" go back on deck, walk through the cockpit where everyone is enjoying their beer, and pour their nasty juice over the (downwind?) side when everyone is watching? EGAD!
.

Oh, no, you're really overthinking it. I guess you've never been camping? Or peed in a urinal in the hospital?

I keep a couple of the small used laundry detergent bottles under the sink in the head. It's actually easier than peeing in a toilet or the sink, because you don't have to worry about aim. It's easy to sit against the sink and going in the bottle isn't any different from going into a small urinal. It's easier to pee in the wide mouth detergent bottle in tossing sees, than in the sink or toilet.

The cap seals tightly and the bottle goes back under the sink until we are back in port, and I carry a couple of bottles to the bathroom at the marina empty them, and wash them out with a little bit of disinfectant soap.

It's particularly nice at anchor at night. I can go completely silently without waking my wife up pumping the head.

And it's a lot easier

[flyingfin]

Do the math, say you are correct and there are a thousand boats out in the Bay off St Pete. Assume half of those boats have heads, while the rest are small runabouts with no head. Of the 500 boats with heads, assume half dump their 20 gallon tank overboard once a month.

That does not come close to the volume discharged from spills that occur when a raw sewage pipe breaks

Major sewer line break spills millions of gallons near Sarasota Bay in Manatee County

https://www.mysuncoast.com/2020/06/3...anatee-county/

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

Do the math, say you are correct and there are a thousand boats out in the Bay off St Pete. Assume half of those boats have heads, while the rest are small runabouts with no head. Of the 500 boats with heads, assume half dump their 20 gallon tank overboard once a month.

That does not come close to the volume discharged from spills that occur when a raw sewage pipe breaks

Major sewer line break spills millions of gallons near Sarasota Bay in Manatee County

https://www.mysuncoast.com/2020/06/3...anatee-county/

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just asking how many people comply. Lot of conflicting opinions here. I'll say it again, I'd guess there are a lot of people who do the math and flip the discharge switch. Only time they don't is if they think they'll get caught. Keys, Catalina Island, etc.

[Simi 60]

We have 2 X saniloo treatment systems on ours and they discharge into a 400 litre holding tank the treated contents of which can be pumped out in all but nil discharge areas.

The Sani-Loo® Onboard Sewage Treatment System treats the macerated sewage as it enters the treatment tank. A simple control box introduces a chemical solution that sanitizes the raw sewage killing the bacteria and rendering the waste 99% clear of harmful bacteria.

The treated waste can be pumped directly overboard in most areas unless you are in a nil discharge area. (In this case, it remains in the holding tank until the vessel is in an area where treated sewage can be discharged overboard.) Alternatively, the waste can be discharged at a shore-based pump-out station

https://sani-loo.com.au/products/treatment-systems/

We were horrified the first time we started pumping out to find that even though it's treated, the colour and smell remains the same.

Now we wait until we are doing miles with no other boats around before hitting the switch.

[belizesailor]

Like most things, it depends...

Some venues in the USA have strong enforcement, big fines, and ample pump outs. (However, I still think discharge from boaters is miniscule compared to what municipalities sometimes release.)

Here in the W Caribbean the nearest pump out station is in Miami! But, boat density is also low.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We have 2 X saniloo treatment systems on ours and they discharge into a 400 litre holding tank the treated contents of which can be pumped out in all but nil discharge areas.


We were horrified the first time we started pumping out to find that even though it's treated, the colour and smell remains the same.

Now we wait until we are doing miles with no other boats around before hitting the switch.

FYI Simi - in the US, if the treated waste is held in a holding tank, it is considered untreated waste. I guess the thinking is the holding tank serves as a fertile ground for bacteria.

I am still confused. Sounds like there are a lot of people who do not agree with the laws/regulations and therefore feel dumping is not a problem. Again, not saying this is right, wrong, or justified. Just an observation - and is the reason I'd guess a sizeable percentage of boaters are at least occasional 'illegal' dumpers (if not more frequent).

Peter

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I am still confused. Sounds like there are a lot of people who do not agree with the laws/regulations and therefore feel dumping is not a problem. Again, not saying this is right, wrong, or justified. Just an observation - and is the reason I'd guess a sizeable percentage of boaters are at least occasional 'illegal' dumpers (if not more frequent).

My approach is that in areas of large volume and good flow, direct discharge is generally fine. In fact, it's probably the better environmental choice -- better than any human waste treatment system. But in contained areas, and especially those with poor flow, discharge can have a significant impact on the environment, and on fellow humans who are also using the area. Here one should not be discharging.

The 3-mile line is a simple way of ensuring discharge happens in the former situation, and not the latter. But this is an arbitrary rule. One can find areas where direct discharge is perfectly fine, without necessarily adhering to the letter of the law.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My approach is that in areas of large volume and good flow, direct discharge is generally fine. In fact, it's probably the better environmental choice -- better than any human waste treatment system. But in contained areas, and especially those with poor flow, discharge can have a significant impact on the environment, and on fellow humans who are also using the area. Here one should not be discharging.



The 3-mile line is a simple way of ensuring discharge happens in the former situation, and not the latter. But this is an arbitrary rule. One can find areas where direct discharge is perfectly fine, without necessarily adhering to the letter of the law.

I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, the regulations are quite clear and unambiguous.

One thought that comes to mind is on compost head threads there are several people who state CH users illegally dump their spoils - how dangerous and unsanitary it is. And yet here is a thread where vast majority are ambivalent about the regulations and seem content with a personal interpretation. I'm not saying it's the same people, just a distinctly different tone to the topic of waste disposal. Dumping seems to be fine when it's your (the royal use, not anyone inparticular) holding tank that's full. But when it's someone elses......

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, the regulations are quite clear and unambiguous.

One thought that comes to mind is on compost head threads there are several people who state CH users illegally dump their spoils - how dangerous and unsanitary it is. And yet here is a thread where vast majority are ambivalent about the regulations and seem content with a personal interpretation. I'm not saying it's the same people, just a distinctly different tone to the topic of waste disposal. Dumping seems to be fine when it's your (the royal use, not anyone inparticular) holding tank that's full. But when it's someone elses......

You're right. The 3-mile limit is quite clear. But us humans are masters at justifying our own choices.

We speed on the roads, but argue it's 'just keeping up with traffic.' We fudge our taxes, jaywalk, or run red lights. All of it in opposition to laws and regs that are quite clear and unambiguous, but we always find a way to justify our actions.

But while we all stretch laws and regs to suit our own purposes, we're quick to condemn others who do something similar; especially in situations that matter to us.

All part of being human I guess.

[freshalaska]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You're right. The 3-mile limit is quite clear. But us humans are masters at justifying our own choices.

We speed on the roads, but argue it's 'just keeping up with traffic.' We fudge our taxes, jaywalk, or run red lights. All of it in opposition to laws and regs that are quite clear and unambiguous, but we always find a way to justify our actions.

But while we all stretch laws and regs to suit our own purposes, we're quick to condemn others who do something similar; especially in situations that matter to us.

All part of being human I guess.

Yes we are a society of Hippocrates aren’t we. Sometimes with a real lack of respect for others. It’s okay if you don’t get caught right.

[osprey877]

I kept my boat at the Port of Blaine marina in Washington State. They have a mobile pump and tank on a wagon that was kept at the head of each wharf. You wheeled it down to your boat, put the hose in your deck pump out and in five minutes your tank was empty. Wheel the cart back to the head of the dock and empty the tank into the municipal sewer system. Worked perfectly and was well used by all boats, including the liveaboards. Free (included in moorage charge) and much easier than taking the boat to a central pump out station, a feat that would be beyond the capability of many of the liveaboard fleet, most of which hadn't moved for years.
I'm now at a marina north of the border. Lots of liveaboards but no pump facilities, nor any shoreside toilets etc. Only available service is to call a home septic tank cleanout service who for about $100.00 will bring one of their trucks to the head of the dock and run a hose down to your boat. You can imagine how often that service is used.
OTOH I was just reading that a fin whale produces 250 gallons of urine a day, and that fish excrement is an important and necessary organic food source for marine plant and animal life, including plankton, krill, herring etc. Here in the PNW our salmon and herring stocks have been in steady decline over the years, so maybe the boating fraternity is doing us all a favour by replacing some of the poop from the millions of missing fish??

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

FYI Simi - in the US, if the treated waste is held in a holding tank, it is considered untreated waste. I guess the thinking is the holding tank serves as a fertile ground for bacteria.

Fair enough, and I have not heard that about holding tanks in OZ so won't comment.
What I do know is pump out facilities where we cruise are as rare as unicorns