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Old 17-04-2018, 19:59   #31
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by TXnewbie View Post
Might be a dumb question however our plan is start in US June 2019 after wintering in southern waters, we are heading to Azores. From there we want to spend a few years in Europe with the kids. Question is should we continue to Pacific from there or head back across Atlantic through Panama to do all the Pacific island and eventually get to New Zealand and Australia then route back to US. Can you do all those southern islands while going west to east?


That all can work
You can sail that way as long as you dont expect to do it in one season.
West to east across the Atlantic is an old sailing route as is east to west. West to east across the Pacific is equally doable. From north Australia to the west is seasonal getting north to ASIA requires passing through the doldrums which is hot and slow.
India to Europe can be done several ways. More yachts are going through the Red Sea now. But down through the Sayshells to Mozambique and South Africa is pretty straight forward if you work the seasons. Then it's across to South America that's ok also if you work the seasons.
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Old 17-04-2018, 21:23   #32
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXnewbie View Post
Might be a dumb question however our plan is start in US June 2019 after wintering in southern waters, we are heading to Azores. From there we want to spend a few years in Europe with the kids. Question is should we continue to Pacific from there or head back across Atlantic through Panama to do all the Pacific island and eventually get to New Zealand and Australia then route back to US. Can you do all those southern islands while going west to east?
At the moment it is a pretty dumb question

I think you are getting way too far ahead of yourself.

Assess your experience, boat and crew during the first stage in southern waters.

Then you should be much more aware...so as to intelligently agree on your family priorities based on a much better sense of your limitations and reality.
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Old 18-04-2018, 03:03   #33
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

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They need to invest in a copy, any edition, of Cornell's WorldCruisingRoutes.
And perhaps also sign onto...
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Old 18-04-2018, 08:13   #34
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

May I suggest that you spend some time watching one or more of the sailing vlogs that are on Youtube.
I know of several that have been cruising for 5 years or more, and they have been most places that you are likely to want to go.

They tend to be sailing "soaps" but without the silly plots that you get in soaps, and can be quite entertaining. If you watch for the hard information they are also very informative.

Two episodes I have seen recently stand out:-
In one, a crew of 6 young adults going eastabout in the roaring forties found it hard and uncomfortable, just watching their video, I wouldn't take a family there.
In the other a catamaran was lost on an uncharted and below low tide reef that the skipper didn't know about. Forward looking sonar has to be essential west of Panama and east of Africa.
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Old 19-04-2018, 07:29   #35
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

You may want to peruse a copy of Jimmy Cornell's World Cruising Routes. IMHO, its the bible of where and when to sail.

https://cornellsailing.com/publications/all-books/
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Old 19-04-2018, 07:41   #36
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

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Pelagic, what is the likelihood of them ever getting anywhere?
Sadly none wtih that plan. A better plan would be to winter in the US and then cross to Europe spending the summer and winter in the European NW. At this point then consider the various options, like stay put, go to the Baltic or sail south to the med.


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Old 19-04-2018, 08:59   #37
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pirate Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

Or.. join the Snow Geese and head down the ICW then spend the winter leisurely making their way to St Martin.. then jumping of direct to the Azores in April/May.. an easy 2300nm hop.. or run up Hurricane Alley to Bermuda (900/1000nm) then across to the Azores (1500nm)..
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Old 24-04-2018, 08:03   #38
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

TXnewbie,
1) First off, you've received some good advice to head to Europe and enjoy your time cruising there, and then head back across the Atlantic....and onto to a circumnav if you wish to continue....
And, you appear to accept that advice...
So, that's all good...and I won't pile-on and be redundant.


2) But, what I would like to do is give you some well intended (and for most novice offshore sailors, much needed) info/advice, regarding:
a) your eastbound Atlantic passage and..
b) your route from Aus back to the US...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXnewbie View Post
Might be a dumb question however our plan is start in US June 2019 after wintering in southern waters, we are heading to Azores. From there we want to spend a few years in Europe with the kids. Question is should we continue to Pacific from there or head back across Atlantic through Panama to do all the Pacific island and eventually get to New Zealand and Australia then route back to US. Can you do all those southern islands while going west to east?
a) instead of retyping a lot, or cutting-n-pasting a lot here that isn't directly on point of your question, I will just point you to a couple excellent threads here, that have a wealth of info and advice for you:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-122743-5.html


And, more info:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-122743-6.html


And, this thread about what not to do, and how not to get into trouble on an eastbound Atlantic passage.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-145794-3.html



b) Regarding heading back to the US (or to EU) from Aus/NZ...
Anyone sailing the western Indian Ocean needs to be aware of serious security issues thereabouts, and most sailboats either avoid this area altogether (by shipping their boat to the Med, or selling their boat in Aus), or stay way south, heading from the Cocos Keeling Islands, across the Indian Ocean to Mauritius or Reunion (or Seychelles, and then onto Mauritius and Reunion)...and then to South Africa, keeping as far south as possible and as far away from the east coast of Africa as possible...and for sure with heightened lookout for any suspicious activity...

(Remember, the entire western Indian Ocean is a security issue, not just the Gulf of Aden / Horn of Africa)....just because you don't hear many news reports of pirate activity, it doesn't mean it is now a safe area of the world....and slow-moving, low-freeboard boats are VERY easy targets!)
{FYI, I have friends that are in Seychelles and love the islands/climate, but are concerned about security there....and while they are a beautiful place, I actually don't recommend sailing there at the moment, as that places you in some fairly dangerous waters....perhaps a flight there from S. Africa, as a respite after a long Indian Ocean passage would be best... }

{Of course those vessels considering running thru the Gulf of Aden, around the horn of Africa, or the even thru the Red Sea, either have serious firepower and adequate trained security personnel on-board, and most run in fast convoys, many escorted by US/UK/French/Japanese Navies (even Iranian Naval forces are out there "protecting" these critical waters!)...and those are the big/fast ships, not small sailboats!}

Further, a few years ago, I researched and tested (both in the lab and at sea), and wrote a very detailed paper on communications systems for ISAF and World Cruising, for vessels transiting these high-piracy areas of the Gulf of Aden, Horn of Africa, etc., and the entire western Indian Ocean...(and also forwarded the paper to the SSCA board and OCC directors)
I have never, and will never, publish this publically as I feel the need to keep the methods of secure communications to just those considering transiting these areas...
So, if a particular rally / vessel / skipper is considering these areas, please get in touch and we can discuss these matters.



3) Finally, in regards to pilot charts and Jimmy's World Cruising Charts...
https://msi.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.po...2&pubCode=0003

https://msi.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.po...ubConstant=APC


Pilot charts are free to download, and I have compared Jimmy's "World Cruising Routes" and "Ocean Charts" to the US GSIA Pilot Charts....and along the major sailing / cruising routes, there is no change in ocean currents, and only some minor changes in wind speeds...
Jimmy's charts make a nice presentation at a yacht club meeting, etc., but for anyone planning an ocean passage, the official pilot charts are just as good....

Now, yes, they do publish some nice books and charts, but for "TXnewbie", I recommend he look at the Pilot Charts on his computer now, and get a very good idea of where/how and why most sail the routes they do...

My recommendation is mainly so he can learn what the currents and winds do, in the various months, in many locations....and use that knowledge to make informed decisions....rather than just read a book and take the author's advice.

Some comments that pilot charts aren't as good as they used to be, are somewhat misleading....as the pilot charts may need to have some historical updates, but don't forget that it can take decades for historical climate changes to be recognized as "climate" rather than "weather"...
Yes, recent weather patterns are a bit different than what many have been accustomed to, but that doesn't mean that the pilot charts are wrong, just that we sailors need to pay more attention to mid-term weather patterns (weeks to months of weather), rather than the "obsession" for accurate 3 to 5 day weather forecasts...



TXnewbie, I hope this helps.
Fair winds.

John
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Old 24-04-2018, 08:32   #39
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pirate Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka4wja View Post
TXnewbie,
1) First off, you've received some good advice to head to Europe and enjoy your time cruising there, and then head back across the Atlantic....and onto to a circumnav if you wish to continue....
And, you appear to accept that advice...
So, that's all good...and I won't pile-on and be redundant.


2) But, what I would like to do is give you some well intended (and for most novice offshore sailors, much needed) info/advice, regarding:
a) your eastbound Atlantic passage and..
b) your route from Aus back to the US...

a) instead of retyping a lot, or cutting-n-pasting a lot here that isn't directly on point of your question, I will just point you to a couple excellent threads here, that have a wealth of info and advice for you:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-122743-5.html


And, more info:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-122743-6.html


And, this thread about what not to do, and how not to get into trouble on an eastbound Atlantic passage.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-145794-3.html



b) Regarding heading back to the US (or to EU) from Aus/NZ...
Anyone sailing the western Indian Ocean needs to be aware of serious security issues thereabouts, and most sailboats either avoid this area altogether (by shipping their boat to the Med, or selling their boat in Aus), or stay way south, heading from the Cocos Keeling Islands, across the Indian Ocean to Mauritius or Reunion (or Seychelles, and then onto Mauritius and Reunion)...and then to South Africa, keeping as far south as possible and as far away from the east coast of Africa as possible...and for sure with heightened lookout for any suspicious activity...

(Remember, the entire western Indian Ocean is a security issue, not just the Gulf of Aden / Horn of Africa)....just because you don't hear many news reports of pirate activity, it doesn't mean it is now a safe area of the world....and slow-moving, low-freeboard boats are VERY easy targets!)
{FYI, I have friends that are in Seychelles and love the islands/climate, but are concerned about security there....and while they are a beautiful place, I actually don't recommend sailing there at the moment, as that places you in some fairly dangerous waters....perhaps a flight there from S. Africa, as a respite after a long Indian Ocean passage would be best... }

{Of course those vessels considering running thru the Gulf of Aden, around the horn of Africa, or the even thru the Red Sea, either have serious firepower and adequate trained security personnel on-board, and most run in fast convoys, many escorted by US/UK/French/Japanese Navies (even Iranian Naval forces are out there "protecting" these critical waters!)...and those are the big/fast ships, not small sailboats!}

Further, a few years ago, I researched and tested (both in the lab and at sea), and wrote a very detailed paper on communications systems for ISAF and World Cruising, for vessels transiting these high-piracy areas of the Gulf of Aden, Horn of Africa, etc., and the entire western Indian Ocean...(and also forwarded the paper to the SSCA board and OCC directors)
I have never, and will never, publish this publically as I feel the need to keep the methods of secure communications to just those considering transiting these areas...
So, if a particular rally / vessel / skipper is considering these areas, please get in touch and we can discuss these matters.



3) Finally, in regards to pilot charts and Jimmy's World Cruising Charts...
https://msi.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.po...2&pubCode=0003

https://msi.nga.mil/NGAPortal/MSI.po...ubConstant=APC


Pilot charts are free to download, and I have compared Jimmy's "World Cruising Routes" and "Ocean Charts" to the US GSIA Pilot Charts....and along the major sailing / cruising routes, there is no change in ocean currents, and only some minor changes in wind speeds...
Jimmy's charts make a nice presentation at a yacht club meeting, etc., but for anyone planning an ocean passage, the official pilot charts are just as good....

Now, yes, they do publish some nice books and charts, but for "TXnewbie", I recommend he look at the Pilot Charts on his computer now, and get a very good idea of where/how and why most sail the routes they do...

My recommendation is mainly so he can learn what the currents and winds do, in the various months, in many locations....and use that knowledge to make informed decisions....rather than just read a book and take the author's advice.

Some comments that pilot charts aren't as good as they used to be, are somewhat misleading....as the pilot charts may need to have some historical updates, but don't forget that it can take decades for historical climate changes to be recognized as "climate" rather than "weather"...
Yes, recent weather patterns are a bit different than what many have been accustomed to, but that doesn't mean that the pilot charts are wrong, just that we sailors need to pay more attention to mid-term weather patterns (weeks to months of weather), rather than the "obsession" for accurate 3 to 5 day weather forecasts...



TXnewbie, I hope this helps.
Fair winds.

John
Nice one..
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Old 24-04-2018, 09:35   #40
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

Picking a direction is simple, go opposite of whatever I do. Near as I can tell no matter which way that be it will be the best choice.
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Old 24-04-2018, 09:42   #41
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

Didn't Mottassier do an easterly circumnav a couple of times? Crazy frenchman.
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Old 24-04-2018, 10:34   #42
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Picking a direction is simple, go opposite of whatever I do. Near as I can tell no matter which way that be it will be the best choice.
Sounds like you've got the same Windex I've got; always points where I want to go.
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Old 24-04-2018, 15:50   #43
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by james247 View Post
India to Europe can be done several ways. More yachts are going through the Red Sea now. But down through the Sayshells to Mozambique and South Africa is pretty straight forward if you work the seasons. Then it's across to South America that's ok also if you work the seasons.
Aren't you going the wrong way from what this thread is about? He wants to go eastbound. And rounding South Africa isn't straight forward. The weather around Cape of Good Hope is characterized by trains of strong low pressure systems that come against a strong southerly current on the east coast of the cape. You can watch Delos on YouTube as they sailed from Madagascar to CapeTown and then eastbound back to Madagascar. To go eastbound they had to point south to avoid those lows.
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Old 24-04-2018, 23:47   #44
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

Wind direction is the primary consideration.

The Red Sea safety doesn't make a lot of difference whether you do it early or late in the cruise. Either way you must pass thru the area or route around the south tip of Africa. About the only possible advantage is you could buddy up with some other boats but if some bad guys with guns show up, I wouldn't count on winning the fire fight with or without a buddy boat.
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Old 25-04-2018, 14:38   #45
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Re: Is there a wrong direction to circumnavigate?

I think the OP has signed up for a Leopard 58 Cat, per other posts, might change some opinions like sailing down the ICW,or doing much close hauled work.
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