Is There a Caste System in Sailing?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Obviously the real caste system is very different from the version based in the West, which is more based on money and social class at birth. The fundamental difference is that in the West the individual does not only have the opportunity to change their circumstances but also from their own efforts. Depending on circumstances of birth / family that will be far easier for some than others - but nonetheless doable.

Elsewhere in the world it is either not possible or nearly so for an individual to achieve for themselves, in the latter case as much about restricted access to formal education as well as artificial barriers (including formal education "qualifications" - a tendency that has gained currency in the west in recent decades, won't be long before will need a degree to work in Mc D! - at the counter). But on the upside for those outside the West, being self-employed and going global has never been easier for the average Joe - whether in downtown Arkansas or uptown Mogadishu!

Outside of permanent Marina berths, IME boats have always been a great social leveller - where binman and lawyer genuinely treat each other as equals.......at least between those who actually know one end of their boat from the other!

[muskoka]

I think the lowest caste is the fellow who fixes the heads. And on our boat that would be the Owner.

The highest caste are those who block the heads. And they be called Guests.....

[conachair]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Outside of permanent Marina berths, IME boats have always been a great social leveller - where binman and lawyer genuinely treat each other as equals.......at least between those who actually know one end of their boat from the other!

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by atoll

i think you will find once you start cruising proper ie ocean passages all pretence and snobbery quickly falls away amongst yachts men and women on widely varying budgets,the sea is a great leveler

I think this is a good point.

[mausgras]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Obviously the real caste system is very different from the version based in the West, which is more based on money and social class at birth. The fundamental difference is that in the West the individual does not only have the opportunity to change their circumstances but also from their own efforts. Depending on circumstances of birth / family that will be far easier for some than others - but nonetheless doable.

Elsewhere in the world it is either not possible or nearly so for an individual to achieve for themselves, in the latter case as much about restricted access to formal education as well as artificial barriers (including formal education "qualifications" - a tendency that has gained currency in the west in recent decades, won't be long before will need a degree to work in Mc D! - at the counter). But on the upside for those outside the West, being self-employed and going global has never been easier for the average Joe - whether in downtown Arkansas or uptown Mogadishu!

Outside of permanent Marina berths, IME boats have always been a great social leveller - where binman and lawyer genuinely treat each other as equals.......at least between those who actually know one end of their boat from the other!

David makes many good points.

Here in SE Asia class distinction is very strong and rather inflexible. Business and politics is very much about status and connections for the nationals. This is true in western countries to an extent but it is much more flexible. You can rise in the social strata (and fall) much more easily.
Domestic boating is a lot more about social status rather than lifestyle choice and the marinas reflect the distinction. They tend to be associated with luxury resorts and real estate developments. There is a big gap between the "snotty yotty" and the ordinary expat yotty or cruiser. There is a chasm between the local fishing community and the marina crowd.
The marina bar is something of a social leveller but is usually dominated by the expat and passing through cruisers.

[Cavalier]

Is there a caste system in sailing?

Have you not seen the film "Slum-dock millionaire"? ;-)

[boatman61]

Inboard caste
Outboard caste
Engine free caste
Mono caste
Multi caste
Power caste
ROCNA caste
Anything but ROCNA caste
Under 30 caste
Over 50 caste
Toys caste
Toyless purist caste

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by mausgras

Here in SE Asia class distinction is very strong and rather inflexible. Business and politics is very much about status and connections for the nationals.

and to be fair!, that attitude is based on pragmatics - if you are at the bottom of the social strata a racing certainty that you either lack the education (and possibly also the social graces! - just because "we" westerners can't tell the difference between peasant and middle class (nor care) does not mean that the locals don't know and care - within 0.2 seconds of meeting!) or the contacts to be of much use for jobs above your present (and family) status.......and likely both.

Me own tended to confuse other locals , dressed like tomboy, the mannerisms of a thug - but also had a good (formal) education behind her so spoke well. But she got away with acting like this because she could - mostly from respect, the scared end of - from self in latter years but kicked off from family.........but not everyone in that part of the world gets to write own rules . Was quite an eye opener to chat to locals about family history - and that went both ways, for them the fact that my own have had various ups and downs in fortune over the centuries was of interest (the DOJ's have never seemed to "know their place" ).....and I have always been on the "Why the f#ck not me?" end of life, an attitude I did my best to share .

The goods news is that the world (at least in much of SEA) is moving on........the price of that is more social unrest as folks question the status quo and then change it ("Why have I got the sh#tty end of the stick?" ).

Anyway, not much of a thread topic to drift off from .

[sailorboy1]

heck if one has read CF a while the answer to the OP questions would be obvious

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

Is there a caste system in sailing?

Have you not seen the film "Slum-dock millionaire"? ;-)

I don't know whether to Lol or to groan!

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Inboard caste
Outboard caste
Engine free caste
Mono caste
Multi caste
Power caste
ROCNA caste
Anything but ROCNA caste
Under 30 caste
Over 50 caste
Toys caste
Toyless purist caste

I couldn't agree more. As the owner/sailor of a 40+foot racer cruiser monohull, w/o in-mast furling, with a bruce/rocna/fortress arsenal, I prefer not so be forced to be in the company of multihulls or (gasp!) power boats.

Why next you'll be forcing me to share my buckets with you!

A caste system - Hell no!

Boatman forgot to include
Those that have transat
Those that haven't
Those that have circumed
Those that haven't
Those that think they're water sailing">blue water sailing as soon as they can't see land
Those that blue water sail

and many, many more.

My personal impression is that if people see you can handle a boat, they will respect you for that and not worry too much about anything else

cheers

[conachair]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Inboard caste
Outboard caste
Engine free caste
Mono caste
Multi caste
Power caste
ROCNA caste
Anything but ROCNA caste
Under 30 caste
Over 50 caste
Toys caste
Toyless purist caste

That's the sailors on the internet system

In the real world how many actually care?

[MacG]

Depends on where you are. In Holland not too many. Like the "Koninklijke" at Muiden.

Yachting here is going fast downhill, so pretentions become fewer.

Nonetheless I am not bothered.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by MacG

Nonetheless I am not bothered.

reminds me of the ol' gag -

Interviewer: so, what would you describe as your biggest weakness?
Interviewee: Honesty!
Interviewer: Honesty, eh!? i'm not sure I think that's a weakness..
Interviewee: I don't give a f@$k what you think!

[Krogensailor]

As for marinas, it's proportionality tied to having a 400 gallon tank versus a 40 Gallon tank. Try to stay out of marinas if you can. Anchor out. Different crowd.