Is There a Caste System in Sailing?

[perchance]

Originally Posted by Guy

I've tried to be as subtle as possible. The caste system does not come from New England, more like India. It has very little to do with yachting more like an entire social structure from top to bottom.

England had its' own version of the Caste system and probably exported it to
the early Colonies but you guys wised up and rejected it. I suspect one of the reasons Britain did so well in India was their ability to exploit the Caste system that was already entrenched in that society.

[kthoennes]

I grew up in Connecticut too, Zee and I both know about social stratification. The sedimentary-rock walls of the Grand Canyon have nothing on the social layers around eastern Long Island and the Connecticut River. Oh the stories I could tell -- but then you'll find some of it anywhere. We keep our boat at a marina on the Missouri River in Yankton, SD (that's South Dakota, not San Diego). We belong to the yacht club. When I first asked about joining, I assumed we would need sponsors and a hefty initiation fee. They burst out laughing. It's $30 a year and that gets you a burgee, some social events, and you can join the sailboat races. No clubhouse, no white pants and blue, double-breasted blazers with gold buttons. It's great fun and no stress -- however, that's not to say that there isn't some stratification even there, a billion miles from any salt water. Each dock has its own character. "A" dock is old money, big slips, and slips that have been in the same family since the marina was built in the 1950’s (although some of those big boats are very old and tired). H and I docks are almost all sail. H tends to be the big, expensive sail boats, including the guy who applies a dazzling, beautiful, bright copper antifouling on his hull every year even though we’re in fresh water with almost zero marine growth. I could go on, but my point is that the class and social division stuff happens everywhere, from high school to neighborhoods to marinas a billion miles from the ocean. As for the financial angle, I work on my own boat a lot, but I won't let it be a big mess, and I don't want a big mess in the next slip. We work very hard on the boat and I don't polish all the stainless rails so the Wreck of the Hesperus can pull in next door in a giant cloud of blue smoke, and I’ve been tempted to climb the rigging of the boat two slips over and replace the shredded pirate flag on the backstay just because it bugs me (and an intact flag helps me gauge the wind).

[Boatguy30]

Funny you should mention this. A bit off topic, but I see the same thing at my kids public school. The parents with the Lexus and bmws park wherever they want and the school officials ignore the yellow lines in their case. I ride my bike and point out them they are raising their kids to be rude adults. I suppose they will be the ones with no student loans in the future so they will be the ones with the medical industry complex jobs and the yachts in the future.....

[Hudson Force]

I'm tossing in the BS card! I grew up as a middle class person among many of great wealth. I remember a classmate who received a new corvette from his girlfried on his 16th birthday. Sure, some people have more than others,...some people are more ethical than others,.... some pople are more gracious than others,.... and some people judge others by their wealth. It is not proper to make judgements of people according to their wealth.

[Boatguy30]

The reality is that when you grew up things were a lot different. Lots of guys around here with families are lucky to make $11 an hour with no chance of overtime. There kids will not be able to go to college without massive debt.

Anyhow, this is not what the thread is about, but it is today reality. There is a small group making great wages and a growing group working hard for less and less. Jeb Bush was talking about this a few weeks back. Haven't heard much from him lately. Hard to raise campaign cash for him with that message.....

[eyschulman]

There are other issues for marina owners regarding who they encourage or discourage. Most work on a purely capitalistic system, they want to make money at the end of the day. If the marina is desirable charge more if you can't rent your slips maybe you charge less unless you are gov't run then all bets off. Also the fear of getting stiffed or having a boat in bad shape dumped a very expensive affair for marina. Some boats and their owners don't match the image some marinas try to project. If a marina is trying to appeal to upscale clientele and gets hippie instead it does not do their business plan any good. I am at a small family run marina with a lot of old woody's not upscale but respectable with some owners probably on a shoestring boat budget. The boat next to me was towed in supposedly just for a few days not in good shape looks like scrap wood. The owner disappeared and left the marina holding the bag for what is going to be an expensive proposition. Don't you think this marina owner is going to use some extra discrimination about who he rents to in the future.

[Hudson Force]

[QUOTE=Boatguy30;.................... when you grew up things were a lot different............................[/QUOTE]

Maybe you are right! This is very difficult for me to evaluate. My parents were able to support me throughout college; and yet, I graduated with a debt that was equivalent to the first four years of my total earnings and not paid off until ten years after my graduation. Actually, my college debt was not paid off until I had already been living aboard a sailboat for eight years! Let's match that to today. If a college graduate begins at an income of 30K/year and with a total student debt of 120K; could they expect to be out of debt in ten years? Maybe so, if they were living on a 30 foot sailboat at an inexpensive marina with a ten year old cheap car to get to work. No, I don't think things were that different when I grew up. There was still less opportunity for those with less preparation for the economy of the times. There was still more opportunity for those with more education and more preparation. Yes, the employment rate was 95% instead of 92%. ....but back to the topic... a caste system? NO! Absolutely not. People in my part of the world still have the option of making their opportunity for success by decisions related to their pursuit of education and motivation,- not due to some position related to their station of birth. People living on boats and cruising have their opportunities determined by their successes and decisions and not according to their heritage. Inherited wealth is a factor, but not a rule!

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I'm tossing in the BS card! I grew up as a middle class person among many of great wealth. I remember a classmate who received a new corvette from his girlfried on his 16th birthday. Sure, some people have more than others,...some people are more ethical than others,.... some pople are more gracious than others,.... and some people judge others by their wealth. It is not proper to make judgements of people according to their wealth.

It's not universally true. My girls grew up in a school district that comprised basically two towns -- one very middle class, including middle-class blacks, and one extremely wealthy town. Both my daughters had good friends from both areas. My older girl is 33 and still in touch with her high school friends -- they are still in each other's weddings, etc. There was no doubt that some kids had a lot more than others, and I'm sure there were kids in that high school to whom it was very important, but there were plenty who just didn't care. Not surprisingly, neither did their parents.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

It's not universally true...................... but there were plenty who just didn't care. Not surprisingly, neither did their parents.

You lost me! Are you saying that there was no care about the status and money? If so, that's exactly the same as my interpretation..... 'and therefore it is "universally true". I'm sorry that I don't understand your message.

[tropicalescape]

Sailors are "untouchables" in the world caste system.."Laborers in the wheat fields of life"

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Sailors are "untouchables" in the world caste system.."Laborers in the wheat fields of life"

Now that is odd that you should place sailors as the lowest rung, "the untouchables", because as a sailor, I feel that I have beat the system and found a place out of reach from the world of strife!

[boatman61]

Depends on your perception of 'Untouchable'....
I mean... 'Bolt' is pretty untouchable right now...

[Invictus69]

There is no 'caste' or any other system - the system is simply called 'supply and demand'. If you take that view on most things, you will notice that it all makes sense.
Cheers!

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

Now that is odd that you should place sailors as the lowest rung, "the untouchables", because as a sailor, I feel that I have beat the system and found a place out of reach from the world of strife!

It sounded like something my grandmother might have said when addressing my grandfathers desire to "take to the sea",He was a retired navy officer and often teased my GM about leaving her for his first love ,the sea...I happen to know as fact ,that some of the finest men to live were great seamen, well, just take that fellow whatshisname for example and that other famous fellow, you know who Im talking about and then theres...

[model 10]

"There was never a great man yet who spent his life inland" Herman Melville