Is There a Caste System in Sailing?

[angelfish2]

Originally Posted by Teknav

.....Just remember next time you see a plane on floats landing near you; it is considered as a boat!!!

Mauritz
Going to behave now!

Darn near had one of those run me over on Lake Union (Seattle)

As far as a caste system goes....well, human beings have a way of trying to make themselves feel better. If being a better "this and that" feels good, then human nature dictates that one is above the next guy. It happens in everything, not just sailing.

If someone truly does have more experience, it would be a true class act for them to be helpful, not look down their noses at those with less experience.

Sorry to say this, but where I have really seen the caste system in sailing is that men seem to feel far superior to the gals. Being stronger doesn't necessarily mean smarter.

[Celestialsailor]

I'm surprised at the length of this thread. It seemed like a silly question really. But perhaps I should not take CF so seriously....
In regards to the Caste system and how it relates to boats...well, not really that I've seen out in the practical world. On CF there are a few that think they are more knowledgeable or more intelligent than others but that would go for general society anyways. I find most of the ignorance I encounter are from non-sailing people. I had mentioned in another thread that I had a real "Holier than thou" woman on board for dinner one time. It was a simple dinner of Linguini and fresh made sauce (no...I didn't make it).
Her first statement was..."Oh...This is kind of like living in a trailer, isn't it"? I shrugged off that comment. As I was serving dinner, I got..."tisk, Is this what you serve all your dates"? That pushed me over the polite edge. I replied..."No...the ones I like get steak"! I ate alone that night but the smile lasted two days...

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Hunter? Isn't that what my housekeeper lives in up the river?

Maybe. But it could be worst I heard that your maid's maid lives on one of those Benny toy boats that is tied to an old engine block over in the backside of the tidal basin that goes all swampy with low tide. Oh the sweet smell of fresh moldy mud.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by defjef

Speaking for me only I have no interest in marina slips or yacht club berths or docks as a place to keep my boat. I avoid them as much as possible preferring to be anchored or on a mooring which I have built to spec.

Marinas are looking for your money and ways to get as much of it as they can. If you are not perceived as a revenue stream they don't want you. Unfortunately apparently some people must use a marina to store there boat. Too bad. You're trapped.

Yacht clubs are social clubs and come with all sorts of activities and percs.. if that is what you want. I don't.

In winter marinas look for in water storage customers... they rent cheap.

I went into Huntington Harbor last year to buy some batteries from Compass Marine. I had great service from them and they exchanged my batteries with a delivery the town dock. I often cruise up from Florida and I do choose to stay at some marinas as far north as the Chesapeake, but it's a different world up into the northeast with outrageous prices. I'm currently leaving my boat at a small marina in North Carolina for 15 days while I take a rental car drive to visit family back in Florida. My total marina bill for the fifteen days with 30amp service came to $122. I could not buy one day at a marina north of the Chesapeake for that price! You rarely find rates this low even in the south, but I can also stay in Fort Lauderdale at a full service Marina downtown for $50. Some say it's because the marinas up there need to make all their money to operate in a short season, but I do think they might be pricing to an elitist market.

[haiqu]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I had mentioned in another thread that I had a real "Holier than thou" woman on board for dinner one time. It was a simple dinner of Linguini and fresh made sauce (no...I didn't make it).
Her first statement was..."Oh...This is kind of like living in a trailer, isn't it"? I shrugged off that comment. As I was serving dinner, I got..."tisk, Is this what you serve all your dates"? That pushed me over the polite edge. I replied..."No...the ones I like get steak"! I ate alone that night but the smile lasted two days...

I like your style.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by defjef

Speaking for me only I have no interest in marina slips or yacht club berths or docks as a place to keep my boat. I avoid them as much as possible preferring to be anchored or on a mooring which I have built to spec.

Marinas are looking for your money and ways to get as much of it as they can. If you are not perceived as a revenue stream they don't want you. Unfortunately apparently some people must use a marina to store there boat. Too bad. You're trapped.

Yacht clubs are social clubs and come with all sorts of activities and percs.. if that is what you want. I don't.

In winter marinas look for in water storage customers... they rent cheap.

My yacht club is great, down-to-earth and no snobbery (no paid employees, no resturant or bar, regular work days for the members). I like the marina I live in very much. I get my money's worth. Of course I'm a revenue stream for them, just the same as if I were renting an apartment. I like the convenience of being in the marina and knowing I can get off my boat no matter what the weather is, not having to get into a dinghy to go ashore, etc. Different strokes for different folkds.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by angelfish2

Darn near had one of those run me over on Lake Union (Seattle)

As far as a caste system goes....well, human beings have a way of trying to make themselves feel better. If being a better "this and that" feels good, then human nature dictates that one is above the next guy. It happens in everything, not just sailing.

If someone truly does have more experience, it would be a true class act for them to be helpful, not look down their noses at those with less experience.

Sorry to say this, but where I have really seen the caste system in sailing is that men seem to feel far superior to the gals. Being stronger doesn't necessarily mean smarter.

True dat.

Yesterday some man was strolling down the dock convinced I couldn't pull my boat over to the fingerdock by myself.

I just don't have time for such misplaced "chivalry" anymore.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Yesterday some man was strolling down the dock convinced I couldn't pull my boat over to the fingerdock by myself.

I just don't have time for such misplaced "chivalry" anymore.

I must be an annoying anachronism then. I hold doors for women (and men), even when I'm pretty sure they could open it for themselves. Sometimes I even offer to catch a line when a boat is pulling into the dock.

Is my "chivalry" misplaced?

And sometimes people even give *me* a hand. I appreciate the thought, and usually appreciate the help, and I always say thank you.

Of course I wasn't there, and perhaps the helper was being a jerk.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by angelfish2

Sorry to say this, but where I have really seen the caste system in sailing is that men seem to feel far superior to the gals. Being stronger doesn't necessarily mean smarter.

Unfortunately, this is a truism. My wife is an excellent sailor and when she is at the wheel when we dock, there always seem to be a lot more men standing at the railing of their boats with fenders. She has never hit anything yet and docks in very heavy weather.

Our neighbor singlehands a 54 footer. That is one really big mama of a boat. One day I was with her and she backed into the fuel slip. A guy on the dock looked at me and said "wow, you did a great job of teaching her".

[Forever Freedom]

The manager of a 270 berth marina in Turkey, which takes everything from small live-aboards to 40 meter Gulets, confided that he would really prefer the boats to be big and have a live-aboard captain - but no crew; that way, the captain would be in the bar every night increasing the profits and whenever any work needed doing on the boat, he would hire the marina craftsmen to do it and would just supervise; then everyone would be happy - the owner would pay all the bills, the marina economy was supported, and the captain had a comfortable life. He then added that, since there weren't enough big boats to meet his dream scenario, he was perfectly willing to accept anyone at all, as long as they were good neighbours, kept the pontoons free of obstructions and swept up any mess/dust etc that they created.

[hanami2]

Interesting question and it depends on how you see the world.
I do not think there are 'castes' as they existed in ancient India but there are different categories of people and consquently of boats.
To keep it short I would say you have the hip, expensive and 'exclusive-looking' places (eg:in the Carribeans, Monaco and a few other ...) where jet setters can be found, then you will have all the other ones.
You may get the 'caste feeling' if the look and cost (mainly cost and its consequences) of those places makes you 'feel' that you don't belong there and don't have the 'guts' to enter.
This would be most probably wrong as, as soon as you start talking to the marina's folks or the boat owners and the crews you are in the sailors' community and even if differences exist, castes are not really there.
Of course there places like Moustique where it will be close to impossible to go as they are private islands but there are not that many. It's a bit like an exclusive Golf Club but they don't have a 'No women, no dog' policy as far as I know.
Now, talking to a few of the people who rent those expensive boat (and her associated crew) for a day, a week or a month, you may well get a totally different feeling.
Of course you will find exceptions with absolutely unbearable people, but I believe it will be on an invidual basis ... and not that often.
Good luck;

[Teknav]

The way you and your crew look on the boat has something to do with the way you are perceived and treated. When arriving at a foreign port, my crew, passengers and I are all dressed up in summer whites; myself in my pilot's uniform. Going through customs takes only a very few minutes without any hassles; never ever any delays and always in a shorter line. Boat/aircraft searches are non-existent. By comparison, I've seen crews of boats dressed up in "beach attire" go through a maze of questioning and searches. If you look "scruffy", marinas, customs and everyone else will look at you with an "unfavorable" opinion. My experience is based on travel to over 40 countries; from the middle-east to the South Pacific.

Mauritz
Going to behave now!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Teknav

The way you and your crew look on the boat has something to do with the way you are perceived and treated. When arriving at a foreign port, my crew, passengers and I are all dressed up in summer whites; myself in my pilot's uniform. Going through customs takes only a very few minutes without any hassles; never ever any delays and always in a shorter line. Boat/aircraft searches are non-existent. By comparison, I've seen crews of boats dressed up in "beach attire" go through a maze of questioning and searches. If you look "scruffy", marinas, customs and everyone else will look at you with an "unfavorable" opinion. My experience is based on travel to over 40 countries; from the middle-east to the South Pacific.

Mauritz
Going to behave now!

I'm laughing at the idea of getting my crew into " summer whites " at this latitudes. I turn up looking like Michellin Man !!
But hey the ' fuzzy wuzzies' were always impressed by a gold braid. ( and beads on time past , I think they've wised up a bit since )

Dave

Dave

[Liam Wald]

Seems to me like the most glaring example of "caste system" is right here on this website. Mostly it has to do with the boat brand/model that members own.
There are frequently self aggrandizing statements made by people who feel superior to others because of how much they paid for their boat regardless of their sailing ability or experience.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Seems to me like the most glaring example of "caste system" is right here on this website. Mostly it has to do with the boat brand/model that members own.
There are frequently self aggrandizing statements made by people who feel superior to others because of how much they paid for their boat regardless of their sailing ability or experience.

How about a couple examples to illustrate your point.