Is The Coast Or The Ocean More Dangerous ?

[justwaiting]

I was reading the article http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226260412694 and it started me thinking. Sure that's an unusual and dangerous event in its self, but the question that eventuated was is the coast or the ocean more dangerous for recreational vessels.

[Pete7]

Sir Robin Knox-Johnson says in one of his books that it's approaching the coast that worries him, not being offshore.

If you look at the major shipping routes they do take the shortest route and merge together at natural bottle necks. Add in some shallow water and rocks and he has a point.

Pete

[Wotname]

Conventional wisdom is that any proximity to a coast is more hazardous to a well found off shore vessel that the open ocean however all bets are off if the vessel is less than seaworthy.

[justwaiting]

hope this link works better, sorry guys
Man missing in yacht drama off Port Macquarie | News.com.au

[Ozbullwinkle]

In this particular case it sounds like the vessel was attempting to cross the Port Macquarie / Hastings river entrance bar at 3am which is very dangerous in itself especially with darkness and if there is any sort of sea running and the tide is running out.

The prevalence of bars on the coast is one factor you don't meet in the open ocean and many vessels who have successfully made an ocean voyage have come to grief on the bar. There was a case earlier this week where a 50 foot commercial fishing trawler was lost on the Tweed River bar and they would have successfully negotiated this countless times in the past.

So IMO inshore waters have special factors & risks that are not present well offshore including increased traffic.

[Mr B]

I have found that close to shore any where is the most dangerous situation for me,

I have had more trouble close to shore than out to sea, Sandbars, rocks, small boats, uncharted river beds, Ships, currents, No where to run if the weather is crap,

Out at sea. I just ran before the bad weather till it blew itself out.
My wind speed indicater was not working, so I had no idea what the actual wind speeds got up to,
One ship that went past said it was a force 6 on one day, But it was a lot stronger on other days,
I had waves higher than my top Spreader, I have a 12 metre mast,
Ships approaching at night are lit up like Xmas trees, so you cant miss them,
And they do crackle the VHF on 16, or say, Sailing vessel. They dont talk to you unless you call them, But I just turn my deck lights on, so they know, I know they are there,

I have an Autopilot, So I just enjoy the cruise and watch the ocean, Make a video once or twice a day, show the conditions or dolphins swimming in the hundreds,

Put my sails up or down for the conditions, Drop them down for the night and up again in the morning,

Out at sea, not a care in the world,

Near the shore, constant watch, gets very tiring,

Before I sailed, Have you got a sat phone, No, I havent, but you need one to stay in contact,

Why do I need to stay in contact, I can go 12 days with out talking to any one,
I dont need to talk to any one,
But you have to talk to people, Why,

Other people may have to talk to some one every day, thats their thing, Not mine,
If I want to talk to people, I will stay home and talk.
Talk to me when I get back,

I am not one of the herd, I dont need some one to hold my hand in every thing I do,

Its peacefull out there, Big waves, small waves, My boats sea worthy, I am safe on it,
I cant hit any thing, Floating containers are a different matter tho,

I love being at sea, I dont like being near the coast,

Yes I definately think being out at sea is safer, Thats why I was 40 miles off the coast coming down the Tasman,

Cheers,
Brian,

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Conventional wisdom is that any proximity to a coast is more hazardous to a well found off shore vessel that the open ocean however all bets are off if the vessel is less than seaworthy.

If we add that both the vessel and the crew need to be "seaworthy" then I would agree 100%.

[Mr B]

I tried to get into Port Macquarie on my way down, I am glad I didnt make it now,
But I did sail into Forster at 2-30 am out of 5 metre waves on the nose after missing Port Macquarie by 12 miles, The weather was that bad, I could not make headway north, So went south instead to Forster,

The currents along that stretch of sea are Horrendous, The sea is all over the place,

[Ocean Girl]

Coast, hands down, the coast by far more dangerous
E

[mrohr]

Different dangers in different areas,and of course some of the same.

I always think of take offs and landings in jetliners.Surely arrival and departures from the land entail the most risks ,but there are unique dangers near shore and off shore with varying degrees of severity.

I.E. near shore much greater chance of being run down by a drunken pleasure boater and of course offshore, there is undermanned commercial traffic with no expectation of encountering a small yacht with a fatigued crew.

Near shore,weather forcasts and proxmity to land provide the hope of safe harbor or a sheltered lee of some sort ,that is if your anchor doesn't drag and you are not dashed to pieces on the rocks while trying to calm your panicked crew. Not so many rocks in the middle of the ocean.

Sorry about this non answer! God, I love sailing and this forum!

[justwaiting]

I was brought up "knowing" that the coast was more dangerous because it was implanted in my head from my father. Reading threads and talking to cruiser over the last 5 or 6 years i have often heard comments along the line of i "only sail coastal, one of these days i will go offshore". When i look at what actually goes wrong it would appear that it only takes one event or mistake to cause a coastal accident where as it appears that the offshore stories relate to a series of circumstances or mishaps. So why do people feel safer near the coast.

Where the accident happened i would not have felt safe because of the flood waters coming down the river at god knows what speed making it impossible to make headway with a 50/50 chance that the tide was going in the other direction. Added to that it was dark and in all probability raining at the time. I think that i would have felt safer going out to sea but there was talk of rigging problems.

[Ozbullwinkle]

justwaiting - thats right I forgot about the floodwaters which would have made the bar even worse than normal. I don't know if you are familiar with this bar but it can be nasty and can break quite a long way off the river entrance if one is not familiar with it and approaches from the wrong direction.

As far as why a lot of people feel safer close to shore is I expect that is because help is within close range ( eg water police and coastguard) If the worse happens and rescue is required these are also quickly available including helicopters which are out of the question when well offshore in ocean waters.

[Johnny Cruiser]

Originally Posted by mrohr

Different dangers in different areas,and of course some of the same.

I always think of take offs and landings in jetliners.Surely arrival and departures from the land entail the most risks ,but there are unique dangers near shore and off shore with varying degrees of severity.

I.E. near shore much greater chance of being run down by a drunken pleasure boater and of course offshore, there is undermanned commercial traffic with no expectation of encountering a small yacht with a fatigued crew.

Near shore,weather forcasts and proxmity to land provide the hope of safe harbor or a sheltered lee of some sort ,that is if your anchor doesn't drag and you are not dashed to pieces on the rocks while trying to calm your panicked crew. Not so many rocks in the middle of the ocean.

Sorry about this non answer! God, I love sailing and this forum!

Well said. I Agree
Just South of Corpus here in Texas entering the Bay & ICW from my house I have to worry about the college kids and their drinking as they seem to think that whatever they do they are in the right of way esp. when it comes to using PWC, Jet ski's, wake boarding, kites, sking etc. Safety is not on their minds. They are doing tricks and jumping 20ft in front of you to "show off" how many brain cells their drinking has killed. IMHO is quite dangerous to them and the general public. Once I make the Ocean all is peaceful and beautiful and serene. Do not think I am anti college students as I have 6 in college or grad school and some weekends we have 25/30 of them staying over. Had to buy a "Party Barge" pontoon boat to supplement their gear so they had a moveable place to hang out and use the rest room as I did not appreciate them just "peeing" over the side into the water. Had the added benefit of keeping more of the drunk ones on a safe boat versus on the water.
As a pilot I also agree that it is the in close stuff that is nerve racking or most dangerous. Had my plane based @ Midway Airport on the South Side of Chicago for many years and many of the people I meet/saw landing/taking off I wouldn't have trusted with the Wright Brother's plane. Mass traffic is more dangerous than cruising altitude or the Ocean. Life is beautiful when I am flying looking down @ the earth or the birds below me or just enjoying the beauty of a dolphin pacing my boat just barely out of reach of my outstrectched hand. Life on the Ocean can be so beautiful and peaceful at times.
and then there is the trip back to my dock thru the "herd"........
John

[justwaiting]

Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

justwaiting - thats right I forgot about the floodwaters which would have made the bar even worse than normal. I don't know if you are familiar with this bar but it can be nasty and can break quite a long way off the river entrance if one is not familiar with it and approaches from the wrong direction.

As far as why a lot of people feel safer close to shore is I expect that is because help is within close range ( eg water police and coastguard) If the worse happens and rescue is required these are also quickly available including helicopters which are out of the question when well offshore in ocean waters.

i have only crossed that bar a couple of times, Mr B. foster bar is my old friend i crossed in on a regular basis for 3 years lol.

I know that help is usualy close by and is offered readly (why it was refused in this case may be an interesting story). However my thinking is that when things go pear shape on the coast the space between the problem occouring and the need for help can be very short.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

i have only crossed that bar a couple of times, Mr B. foster bar is my old friend i crossed in on a regular basis for 3 years lol.

I know that help is usualy close by and is offered readly (why it was refused in this case may be an interesting story). However my thinking is that when things go pear shape on the coast the space between the problem occouring and the need for help can be very short.

I didnt say Help was refused, Don from the Forster Rescue service guided me into there, And he was more than helpfull.
Which I am very gratefull for,