Is my sail too tall?

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by MartinF

Horizontal wrinkles at the luff are a good sign of insufficient luff tension.

Looking at the picture of the sail flying (above) you can see the wrinkles he is talking about - one good turn of the halyard winch will take those out, and he has plenty of hoist for that (and for further stretch), and the ability to shorten up that halyard/knot/shackle at the masthead also if necessary. . . . all IMHO ofc.

I personally would say the sailmaker did a good job - looks like a decent sail.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Wait... that SS tang on the Profurl is supposed to slide over/above the black wrap stop.... something amiss with your setup I think....

I think that is the right answer, here is another picture of how it should look.


So, if this is how it should look, the head of the sail is too low if anything.
One thought I had, is the bowline in the halyard fouling underneath that halyard restrainer (the black bit at the top of the foil), that would prevent the sail from hoisting fully. From what I have read, the ring at the top of the tang should just be above the restrainer at full hoist but minimum tension.
You could add a longer shackle or a tack line between the lower drum and the tack of the head sail to raise it a touch, and maybe, as you have treated yourself to a new sail, how about a new halyard, and have a small eye splice in for the head shackle.

[UNCIVILIZED]

If you can wind on enough halyard to induce vertical wrinkles in the sail's luff when it's blowing 20kts, & still have a bit of room left for the sail to "grow over time", then it's not too tall. Since you'll likely begin furling it prior to 20kts normally anyway. So the above test will show you if the sail is currently too long on the luff. And if there's that much of a question, ask the sailmaker. Including having him come down to your boat to look at things, & possibly go out for a sail for a real world check on things. Such falls under their job description.

[Seas the Day]

Why wouldn't you just line it up against your old genoa to see if there are any differences?

[Ryban]

A lot of superbly helpful feedback here, thank you everyone.

I think the knot was getting caught on the black wrap stop, as a couple of you pointed out, and that if anything, the SS tang should indeed slip over the top. I need to replace my halyards anyway, so I may just make a splice on the end instead of tying troublesome knots.

I also talked to the sailmaker, and he seems to be in agreement with this assessment. They made the sail slightly smaller than the measured length to account for stretch, so I trust them so far. If I think the luff is too long, after messing with the halyard a bit, I'll take both sails out to the dock and measure them side by side.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by MartinF

Horizontal wrinkles at the luff are a good sign of insufficient luff tension.
Cheechako's picture seems to provide at least a partial answer, but there looks to be very little space between the halyard sheave and the knot. One way to get the head of the sail higher might be to hoist the sail without securing the tack. When you have the head as high as it will go, pull down the tack using a lanyard. But there will still be a problem when the sail ages and stretches. it may need a cunningham.

If it were me I would talk to the sailmaker. Did he take the luff length from an existing sail? Is the new sail the same length as the old one? Does the old one fit properly? etc, etc.
Good luck,
Let us know what happens,
M

It may be that the wrap stop is located too high? Repositioned lower it may allow the furler tang to bridge over the wrap stop...?

[pcmm]

Looks to me like there are a few issues there.
1) the bowline is probably getting hung up
2) the tang on the profurl isn't raised enough to engage thye wrap stop device
3) the wrap stop device looks like its not properly positioned. the "wings" of the device should be oriented across the boat not for-aft

If you change the bowline to a halyard knot, you'll save a bunch of space. and if someone can go up and adjust the wrap stop that will help. Once that's done, unshackle the tack and then hoist the sail fully and then measure the distance between the tack and the shackle on the drum. You can tension it down with some lashings or take that measurement and make a strop for the head of the sail.

[Ryban]

I wish I had read a few of these posts before climbing the mast this morning.

Yesterday I tried to drop the sail, but I was unable to do so. My worst fear was that the roller furling track had become bent somehow. It was windy (it's always windy here), and the sail is a handful for one person to deal with, so I furled it away for the time being.

I climbed the mast this morning though and found that the halyard had just become wrapped around the portion of the stay above the wrap preventer. So it seems like I do indeed need to reposition and re-orient the wrap preventer, which means another trip up the mast today or tomorrow.

I also looked at the top part of the stay where it enters the fitting, and noticed a slight amount of bulging/untwist. Not much, but enough to make me nervous. I know the previous owner had to replace the forestay because they didn't have the halyard tensioned enough while furling/unfurling the sail, and they ended up unwinding the stay. I really, really hope the two furls/unfurls were not enough to cause damage..

[Ryban]

I climbed the mast again this evening to take some photos. Unfortunately my camera focused on the background instead of the foreground, but I did take a snapshot from my GoPro that shows the basic situation up top, as well as the untwist in the stay.

[Glenn.Brooks]

Ryan,

Yikes. Something has gone amiss to cause the bend in your forestay. Maybe, maybe you can get away with releasing the forestay at the deck and taking the twist out of the wire. However, I would bet you are in for a new forestay. Also, Personally I have no use for swagged mast head fittings. I went with Norseman wirelock terminals years ago for replacement rigging and have never looked back. Easy DYI once you get the hang of them, and dead snap to replace the wire, if it ever does what yours looks like. Other equally good brands are Sta-lok, and Hyden (sp??). They all work very well. Wouldn't do it any other way.

+1 on suggestions to hire a rigger to come out and tune your rig, and help inspect the forestay setup and give you an hours worth of advice on various aspects of tension, wire inspection, etc. it will be well worth your time in the future. We all go through a learning curve with these things...

Good luck, you will sort it out!

Glenn

[Ryban]

Yeah, ugh. I just had the rigging inspected last week, and was given the A-OK. I guess I spent the weekend fudging it up with the new sail. The thing is, I knew this could happen with inadequate halyard tension. I just didn't realize the knot got caught on the wrap-stop, and the tension wasn't going to the sail.

The reason I know this is because it happened to the previous owner too, and it cost them an arm and a leg to get it fixed. They were also in a hurry... and now I am too. My weather window for going south is opening Sunday, and I can't stay in the hurricane belt much longer.

I think I am going to start a separate thread to request help on how to do this job myself -- if that's even really an option.

[hoppy]

That tang looks like a strange design. None of the current Profurl or my old unit from 2002 had the tang.

I had a new sail made a few years back and could never get the luff tension enough and I at first worried about the sail measurements. Eventually I realised that there was still space on the luff track but I just couldn't tighten it.

I had been slowly replacing all lines on my boat and eventually replaced the old stiff headsail halyard and suddenly the luff tension problem went away. The old halyard must have been creating too much friction on the wrap preventor.

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by hoppy

That tang looks like a strange design. None of the current Profurl or my old unit from 2002 had the tang.

I had a new sail made a few years back and could never get the luff tension enough and I at first worried about the sail measurements. Eventually I realised that there was still space on the luff track but I just couldn't tighten it.

I had been slowly replacing all lines on my boat and eventually replaced the old stiff headsail halyard and suddenly the luff tension problem went away. The old halyard must have been creating too much friction on the wrap preventor.

It might have been added after the last halyard wrap incident on the boat, I'm not sure.

I have new halyards, but I haven't rigged them yet as I believe I'll be taking the whole forestay down before sailing again.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by nigel1

I think that is the right answer, here is another picture of how it should look.


So, if this is how it should look, the head of the sail is too low if anything.
One thought I had, is the bowline in the halyard fouling underneath that halyard restrainer (the black bit at the top of the foil), that would prevent the sail from hoisting fully. From what I have read, the ring at the top of the tang should just be above the restrainer at full hoist but minimum tension.
You could add a longer shackle or a tack line between the lower drum and the tack of the head sail to raise it a touch, and maybe, as you have treated yourself to a new sail, how about a new halyard, and have a small eye splice in for the head shackle.

From the same web page as the above photo.

The text says "A Profurl Furler Where the Sail does not Have Enough Hoist."


It seems like the OP's sail is not tall enough.

I replaced my Profurl with a harken and my sail was too short. So I added a strop at the head of the sail so the roller head unit went to the correct height. The OP should do the same.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Ryban, given that pic, your headstay is a recipe for a failure waiting to happen. It needs fixing, probably meaning replacement, now. Prior to any more sailing.
Also, you may wish to go to a mast mounted halyard restrainer. I can't say for certain, but it's worth looking into.


As to the sail, some have suggested adding pendants in order to correct the luff length. Which, if you go this route, add it at the bottom. It works better this way, in that you're much less likely to get halyard wraps (around the headstay).