Is it stupid to take a racing style sailboat around the world?

[Jim Cate]

Well, our Sayer is a bit longer than the 37 mentioned, but she's done around 140,000+ miles now, including some time in the Arctic Ocean and the Southern Ocean, Atlantic, Pacific and ancillary seas. Plus she is our comfortable and to us attractive home, and has been for 17 years.

So, no, I don't think this chap is stupid. It is the folks who automatically decry any cruising boat that isn't heavy, old fashioned, slow, narrow, etc that are stupid IMO.

Jim

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by MJH

Boats are designed and manufactured for a specific purpose/market and waters. Using them outside those parameters is possible (oftentimes successful) but not without a greater risk undertaken.

Do your homework.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Those of you who regularly follow this forum will not be surprised to see that I am answering the question: Is it stupid to take a racing style sailboat around the world?

1. It is stupid to take any boat which is poorly constructed to sea.
2. It is stupid to assume that all racing boats are poorly constructed or are weakly constructed. Most, in fact, have stronger rigging and sailing gear than many "cruising" boats. Keels, rudders, and masts are engineered to take racing loads.
3. It is stupid to go to sea in a boat with poor sailing charcteristics, meaning unable to sail to windward, rudders which become unmanageable or ineffective in strong conditions, or boats whch require engines to tack or make headway against large seas.
4. It is stupid to think that a heavy laminated hull will withstand careless navigation which results in a hard grounding in waves, no hull takes that.

So in my view it is not stupid to take a well constructed racing type boat around the world. Your competence keeps you safe, not the type of boat you select. It is your responsibility to ensure the boat is in good condtion, and simply because a designer thinks the boat type he prefers are better suited for cruising does not make it so.

And why not sail a boat with gives you joy every time you put up the sails?

Photo: Westsail 42



And, as a final note, My wife and I have sailed our "racing type" Serendipity 43 for 34 years and around the world, and have enjoyed living on it, sailing it and racing it all those years, and still do. It is safe, fast, and comfortable. Look at the photo albums in my "Profile".

[Franck Bavaria]

I read a report some time ago of a French compatriot who sailed solo such a boat happily around the world. Was it an Archanbault A31? Can't recall exactly. He was convinced he made the best decision, because he could escape bad weather due to boat speed, because he enjoyed sailing that way. Still lots to keep the boat light enough, freeze dried food, etc. So yes, a good option of some kind, it seems.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by sy_gilana

No Not Stupid.
Sounds like this boat

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...er-229416.html

Yes, this (86) is a fantastic boat built by a friend of mine, Natcho Postigo, who makes his living as part of the afterguard on massive sailing yachts, typically over 100', as his own cruising yacht. He also raced it single handedly.

He is a well respected professional, he knows his stuff, he is not stupid.

[td0tz]

Originally Posted by Dave Lochner

Web Chiles recently completed a circumnavigation in a Moore 24. A small racing boat similar to a J24. He did it as a 70 + year old.

Yes, I aspire to that, although I'm a couple years too late. And it's like saying "Steph Curry hit a 3 pointer left handed going away" -yes, he's Steph Curry. It's what he does.

[Don C L]

I can only speak from having been around boats most of my life, and having crewed on a good sized boat, nearly a maxi at 65', long ago, but keep in mind racing boats are often pushed to extremes and have been engineered to survive, even if they look fragile. I came across even more of that when I was researching mast compression loads. I would bet a racing boat that is not being pushed very hard, or loaded too heavy, is potentially a very SMART boat to cruise in as a result. Racing boats though often are not intended, or designed, to provide a lot of creature comforts and may be a bit spartan and may not have a lot of volume devoted to stowing stuff or liquids. Their motion may not be as comfortable as a heavier boat and a flatter hull will certainly slam more going upwind. But the increased speed may overrule those potential downsides for many. Stupid? No. Preferable? That is a matter of taste IMO.
There was a guy and his girlfriend sailing around our local islands last summer in his J24. Now I don't mind a smaller boat, going a bit spartan and getting splashed ONCE in a while, but even that... only 25 miles from the mainland, seemed a bit too spartan to me! I am definitely getting older! But was he being stupid? Is a boat like that too weak?Absolutely not.

[roland stockham]

There are 3 points to cruising in ex-racing boats.

1 They are build down to a minimum weight in order to be competitive. This means they have less load carrying capacity and tend to be less long lived especially when subject to the sort of stresses you see offshore. It also means they may need more maintenance.
2. They are built for speed not comfort so motion can be more aggressive.
3. It is assumed they will be sailed with a full crew of experienced sailors including being able to change watches. It may be difficult or impossible to adapt they for short handed crew.
Those points aside offshore race boats can and do complete long distance ocean races frequently and safely and some 70's or earlier boats do indeed make fine cruising boats. Generally post 80's boats being progressively less good. This applies for boats built for OFF SHORE RACING not those built for inshore day racing.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by patswil

Ocean going catamarans routinely male 20+ knots

Curious, what make cat does that routinely, I would want one of those ?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Supercat568

There's someone sailing all around the Pacific with long passages in between destinations on a 2005 Sayer 37. Weighs 4.85T empty, 2½ of that is ballast in the bulb keel. Fractional rig, cedar/fiberglass/kevlar around the keel and areas that get beat by waves. He did 375 miles in 48 hours...not too shabby! It was ripping conditions, his girl was sick the whole time. But...do you think this boat is safe enough? Thank you
Edit: also..the keel fits 150 liters of diesel in the fin part. I'm beginning to live this boat more and more. Are there any American boats built like this?

Webb Chiles took a Moore 24 around.

The deal with taking a racing boat around it that you need to be a better sailor to do it. Cruising boats are more forgiving of inexperience. The kind of experience you'd want in a racing boat would take a decade to acquire for most folks.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Curious, what make cat does that routinely, I would want one of those ?

https://www.powercatsnz.com/index.cf...ing-catamaran/



Note the use of the leeward daggerboard - as they’re curved the boards develop lift. This review of a sister ship describes it. https://boatingnz.co.nz/boat-reviews...ill-18-5m-cat/

But they have 6 professional crew for passages to manage the boat, in watches of three. Mainsheet and primary headsail sheet are hand held 100% of the time. Their last passage from Whangarei to Vuda Pt was 2.5 days, including a 6 hour pit stop at North Minerva Reef.

She’s berthed around the corner from us and we hardly ever see her go out for weekends. In 6 knots of wind she went past us with about twice our boat speed.

[wingssail]

Roland, you are making statements without substantiation. You need to put, "I believe." in front of these statements.

Originally Posted by roland stockham

There are 3 points to cruising in ex-racing boats.

1 They are build down to a minimum weight in order to be competitive.
Where is the proof of that statement? "a minimum weight"? What is that? Anyhow weight does not equate to strength or survivability.

This means they have less load carrying capacity
Load carrying capability relates more to hull volume and reserve buoyancy.

and tend to be less long lived especially when subject to the sort of stresses you see offshore.

Evidence?

It also means they may need more maintenance.

Or might not, if they are engineered to withstand racing stresses.

2. They are built for speed not comfort so motion can be more aggressive.

We've been through this, a fast boat is not less comfortable than a slow boat if the slow boat is hobby horsing and driving its bowsprit deep into each wave or rolling to its beam ends or rounding up on each wave because of an ineffective rudder. These are characteristics of too many crusing boats, but not many racing boats. Bottom line on comfort, it is subjective.

3. It is assumed they will be sailed with a full crew of experienced sailors including being able to change watches. It may be difficult or impossible to adapt they for short handed crew.

Not true. The efficiency built into the sail and boat handling equipment and layout (to allow for quick evolutions) such as low friction leads, adequate and well placed winches, responsive helm, etc, are also signifcant benefits when short handed. The ease of operation of a raceboat because of these features makes it possible for a single person or a small person to quickly and easily sheet in a sail, or make othe adjustments which are simply too hard on a boat where those efficiences were not included in the design or poorly placed because of the location of "cruising amenities". And then there is the difficulty or sheer impossibility of moving around on deck on many cruising boat (or simply seeing forward). When I go sailing on friend's crusing boats I am amazed at how hard things are to do compared with my own boat. My 70yr old wife and I can do anything on our boat but not always on my friend's well regarded heavy cruiser, and certainly not as fast or easily.

Those points aside offshore race boats can and do complete long distance ocean races frequently and safely and some 70's or earlier boats do indeed make fine cruising boats. Generally post 80's boats being progressively less good. This applies for boats built for OFF SHORE RACING not those built for inshore day racing.

So how do you determine what a boat was built for? I think that would have to be a subjective determination. Most race boats are designed and built for racing condtions, including strong winds and waves (in other words, offshore racing). Strength of the scantlings (not to be confused with weight) and suitability of the installed equipment should be evaluated when considering a boat for cruising.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Webb Chiles took a Moore 24 around.

The deal with taking a racing boat around it that you need to be a better sailor to do it. Cruising boats are more forgiving of inexperience. The kind of experience you'd want in a racing boat would take a decade to acquire for most folks.

Sorry, that is an opinion which I think is untrue. There is nothing about a racing boat which makes it less forgiving than a heavy cruiser or that it takes a decade to aquire the skills for more than a cruising boat.

For instance, if you make a mistake and find you have too much sail area up for the conditions, you want a boat which allows quick and easy, and efficient reefing, not one where pulling every line is a struggle because it has undersized blocks, high friction, and you can't even get to it because it is poorly placed on a cluttered deck.

For instance, if you manage to wind up in a bay with reefs on all sides, on-shore wind, and big waves coming in do you want a boat which requires that you turn on the motor and hope it keeps running or a boat in which you simply turn into the wind and sail out?

For instance if you forget to change fuel tanks and run your engine dry, do you want a boat where the engine is six feet down under the cabin sole or one where the engine (and fuel pump) is between the quarter berths with easy access.

Which kind of boat is more forgiving?

[Searles]

Pushed a catalina 42mk2 to217nm under plain white sails big seas good wind good crew of 4 no damage no danger this was across the Tasman ,lord Howe to Sydney 👍⛵️

[Knotical]

Once I was waiting for the launch to take me to my boat and came across a French sailor who was getting water at the dock, he sailed his X-35 across the Atlantic to the Caribbean and then came up north for the hurricane season.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Must have been taking it easy.
Once you push beyond 9 knots the workload increases.

Usually a sailboat especially RACING is made for a short time of use with much checking for wear and tear and repairs. Sailboats to go around the world are made more robust and made for longer use between inspections and repairs. Also sailboats, (not for racing), have more items of convenience and comfort and usually spoil the sailor(s). At 9 knots... the workload increases and the comfort is usually compromised. Also at 9 knots, the stress level usually increases. In summary... going around the world... take time to smell the roses and take breaks. Your agenda to go around the world in a hurry might not be the same for all crew members. Do not burn yourself or others out. Enjoy the trips... good luck, fair winds...