Is it necessary to have an ally onboard during a sea trial as a first time buyer?

[SJFK]

Alison
Just bear in mind that the surveyor is only human, and may not spot everything. Do not be scared of pointing things out or asking questions if you are at all concerned. There is a lot of stuff for a surveyor to take in, so he should welcome any observations you might have.
Having him on board for the sea trial is good, just make sure all the sails are exercised, and if there is a spinnaker or cruising chute (coloured sail) try at least to have a look at it out of its sail bag.
Ask when the winches were last serviced, and check their general condition.
Check the steering wheel rotates an equal distance on both tacks.
The surveyor should also conduct a moisture survey but the boat needs to be out of the water for at least 24 hours preferably 72.
Any loads to think about but follow your gut instinct, it will serve you well. Good luck

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by AliB

Thank you both for responding to my questions. I do understand the reason for the sea trial, I am just not clear on what my role is. Do I drive? Do I request sail changes? Do I insist on different points of sail? I have no idea about motors other than I can hear if one isn’t running properly. I have no idea how many requests or how long i should expect. My feeling is I should merely get a feel for how the boat sails on as many points of sail the weather permits. I’m sure I will need new sails.

Thank you again!
Ali B

It is the job of the surveyor to ask for the actions you have listed (and more) - the sea trial is part of the survey he is doing.
BUT - it is your right to add anything you think interesting that he did not ask for.
One item that the surveyors sometime forget: ask to put the engine at max RPM for about 10m and then check coolant temp. Should stay normal and not overheat.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AliB

Ok, thanks. Back to my original question. I want to drive the boat both under sail and motor. Is that typical? My concern is how I like the boat under sail, not just the efficacy. Yeah?
Cheers,
Ali B

The key to this is to get the test sail on a day with wind. If the boat is in a place with very standard conditions it is easier. If it is a place where the wind can vary from day to day, keep your fingers crossed or plan to stay for 4 or 5 days.

One thing you want to avoid is having someone (your buddy) who wants to show you how much they know by disputing everything the surveyor says. This quickly shifts the surveyor from being your friend to being your buddie's opponent and puts him in a bad mood.

[Dave22q]

Necessary? NO but extra eyes are generally a very good idea.

[caffel]

The more eyes on the problem, the better and that's what friends are for.
You will be very busy w the surveyor and the owner and won't be able to cover everything w/o more eyes.

[TIOGA III]

After having gone through the purchase of Tioga III, where the owner had developed Alzheimer`s and purportedly nobody knew about the exact conditions of systems onboard Tioga, I hired a surveyor to evaluate the boat.

We did haul the boat and over a two day period suppposedly surveyed the boat.

This being my first boat purchase of this size I relied on the surveyor pointing out problem areas prior to purchase.

That unfortunately is not what happened.....

At the end of the day it turns out and became apparent to me many months later, the surveyor and the broker were/are very close.

Initial estimate by both that I would be sailing within three weerks of purchase went out the window within those first three weeks once I started going over the onboard systems in detail myself.

The refit took almost two years.

If you would like to know specific details, I would be happy to talk with you as I think I might have a pretty good idea where you are at.

And yes I think it very important to have someone you implicitly trust with experience of all systems onboard in your corner for an initial survey by you, then during official survey and seatrial.

best wishes,
Nils

[boatpoker]

A couple of things that may be of interest

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

Sea Trials ,,, it ain't just a boat ride !

[CassidyNZ]

Having an ally on board? Maybe not the broker. Remember he’s acting for and being paid by the seller. He helps to reject the sale and he doesn’t get paid.

The surveyor? He’s already been paid but at least he has to substantiate stuff in his report and it’s in his interest to pick up any further deficiencies. But there may be an additional fee.

A friend? Only for comfort or if you’re a first-time buyer and the friend knows more than you do. A friend who is inexperienced in the type of boat may be “wowed” by the experience and help talk you into a poor decision.

The sea trial has one important aspect. It is the time when the seller or his representative demonstrates the functionality of every single piece of equipment on the boat. Everything must work or the price must be negotiated accordingly. And remember, if the representative can’t make it work (and the reaction will invariably be “I don’t know how this works”) that’s no excuse because if he can’t, probably you can’t either and it’s going to cost you money. This is especially relevant with “capital goods” like watermaker, fridges, genset, autopilot, chartplotter, anchor winch and so on. A high-level spec that sets the tone of the boat is of negative value if the stuff doesn’t work.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by AliB

Hi my new friends,
I have been a racing sailor for over 25 years and am now transitioning to become a live aboard off shore cruiser. I have a surveyor booked for a sea trial and survey of a tartan 40, the boat I am interested in. I am not sure who will be on the boat for the sea trial, other than the surveyor, the listing broker, and perhaps the owner. I am wondering if it is necessary to have someone in my corner come along. I have only bought racing boats in the past so this process is new to me. I welcome any advice as a new cruiser. Many thanks, Alison

I think it's your surveyor who's the one who should be in your corner here. Not sure I'd be taking a lot of buddies along as you don't need a circus and should be focusing on what your surveyor says.

[IAmGroot]

If the boat has a generator, do not forget to run that under load (like air conditioning) as well, and check temps. Almost bought a 4 year old boat in which the genset was frozen up due to complete lack of maintenance.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by chris in SG

In my experience, a survey is usually undertaken when the buyer is already convinced but needs a reality check before signing a contract.

In the US, a survey will rarely take place before a contract is signed. If any faults are found during the survey, the sales price can be renegotiated or the buyer can cancel the sale and get his full deposit back. The contract is the seller's way of knowing the buyer is really convinced.

[jim King]

Be sure the surveyor is one of your choosing from the area of the boat you are buying. Make sure is working for you and not the seller. I would definitely want a sea trial before possibly wasting money on a survey. The seller or his broker should be glad to take you out for a good test sail before you have to shell out the coin for a survey. If you have a good buddy that is very knowledgeable on the mechanics of the type boat your are buying in might be worth the cost of airfare to have him along.
cheers,

[Telemark43]

The engine should start cold. It should run the boat at the rated hull speed, run at recommended RPM doing that, it should not smoke when warm, and not overheat. The alternator should be putting out current, lots of current, so all the electrical stuff should work, like refrigeration the bigest electrical loads, lights, navigation lights, spreader lights, radios, etc.

[Dooglas]

I'm with mlydon, the sea trial is just that, an on the water trial to determine aspects of the condition of the boat that can not be determined on the hard. It is not for the purpose of determining whether you like the boat. You should have already past that point. After all, you have made an offer to buy this boat presuming its condition is as presented to you. Now about an "ally", sure if you have a knowledgeable or experienced friend you would like to invite along, - do so. They may have observations or suggestions that would be useful to you.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

I'm with mlydon, the sea trial is just that, an on the water trial to determine aspects of the condition of the boat that can not be determined on the hard. It is not for the purpose of determining whether you like the boat. You should have already past that point. After all, you have made an offer to buy this boat presuming its condition is as presented to you. Now about an "ally", sure if you have a knowledgeable or experienced friend you would like to invite along, - do so. They may have observations or suggestions that would be useful to you.

I disagreewith the opinion that a sea trial "is not for the purpose of determining whether you like the boat. You should have already past that point"

That totally disregards the idea that how the boat sails or performs underway is important to a propective owner.

I don't know about trawler style powerboats but sailing boats and planning powerboats all will have unique charcteristics which are only apparent underway. In this case the OP is a sailboat racer. He will be very attuned to how the boat sails and feels. How else would he determine this unless it is at the sea trial?

Going further, he should be at the helm and he should be in charge as to what they do onthesea trial, notthe surveyor, broker, or previous owner.

If he wants to try some other part of the boat or equipment he can turn the helm over to someone else momentarily.

I rejected two other boats, which were otherwise very acceptable, after sea trials.