Internet

[masonc]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

Unfortunately, I think many marina offices don't have a corporate franchise budget. That's probably why we have what we have.

There's a model that would solve everything here. If I was in the US, I would probably take a run at it.
As a vendor I would offer to supply a free wireless system. I would install and maintain it at no cost to the marina. WiFi would not be free, the system would include payment system so boaters could sign on with a credit card.
I would then split the revenue with the marina. Everyone wins.

[hellosailor]

In older times when a medium-sized business might still ask "What do we need the internet for?" you had some very different and obvious hardware problems. When the internet connection comes into the premises and hits the first "router", that router gets every internet packet all jumbled in random order. It needs enough computer power to store every packet, simultaneously, and then forward then in correct numerical sequence to each destination.
On an internal network (the LAN) the network server, or the computer that was being the LAN server, used the power of the main processor to do all that sorting. So if there was only one server and heavy internet or internal LAN traffic, the server and all corporate applications bogged down while this was happening. LAN cards with on-board CPUs solved that problem, but they weren't cheap.
Similar problem must still exist, despite the way new hardware is so much more powerful. For a home user to service four or six devices, no problem. For a marina where the primary router may be carrying 50? 100? 250? connections and trying to sort them all out, resequencing the packets for each destination, there's a bigger job.
I suspect that a Raspberry Pi will bog down, and that some pricier equipment will be needed to run a larger distributed mesh network for a marina or other location, if it is going to be efficient. Sticking one home router on top of the bar and expecting it to deal with commercial traffic...Nah. Commercial traffic has always required a bit more horsepower than what home users and small offices have.
I'm not sure what is being used professionally these days, but whether it is an apartment building (50-100 units) or a marina, covering it with WiFi and getting a strong fast signal to all the users at once? Rarely done well.

[sailorboy1]

The internet here got spotty the last couple nights. I notice it started about the same time that a couple of big motor yatchs showed up.

[Sailor_Hutch]

Just a quick sample of 20 marinas in NC puts the averages for slips/transients at about 104/10, with a maximum of 500 and minimum of 4 slips. That speaks to the likely budgeting levels available for things like WiFi ...

I'm not really sure what percentage of those slips would be using WiFi at any point in time, but I'd guess that the percentage is not very high ...

[Sailor_Hutch]

The (relatively) low average slip accomodation numbers that I quoted in the last post makes me think that a few nodes, strategically placed around a marina, would greatly improve things for the average marina. It'd all have to be made safe, of course. I don't think the average marina necessarily needs a very large scale solution. Commercial maybe, but not large scale ...

[hellosailor]

Hutch-
Even in the most plush shopping malls in the country, the rule for designing parking lots is that the lots will be 100% full and people will not be able to park for some time on the three busiest days of the year. (Thanksgiving, Xmas, Mothers Day, I think). People apparently will accept that. Or, shop online. (Ooops.) With a marina, good guess how much WiFi they'd need before people complained and went elsewhere.
If they average 100 slips and maybe 25% of boats have just one movie being streamed after dinner...they'd still need 25 high speed broadband connections for the minimum. And multiple nodes. And still a lot more than your average home office or small business system. Assuming they can find a local installer who really understands how to set them up, and how to run wires for the backbone in a marine environment.
All of that will actually be CHEAP. That is, when you remember how much you got for $4/minute on radiotelephone and early cell phone calls.
I wonder how many marinas really should be setting up a RedBox DVD rental kiosk instead?(G)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by masonc

There's a model that would solve everything here. If I was in the US, I would probably take a run at it.
As a vendor I would offer to supply a free wireless system. I would install and maintain it at no cost to the marina. WiFi would not be free, the system would include payment system so boaters could sign on with a credit card.
I would then split the revenue with the marina. Everyone wins.

That was the way it was done 5 and 10 years ago, in hotels. Now you get low speed Internet for free - 256kbs - 512kbs, something like that. And you pay for "premium" bandwidth.

That's the way it is in UK marinas already now.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by masonc

There's a model that would solve everything here. If I was in the US, I would probably take a run at it.
As a vendor I would offer to supply a free wireless system. I would install and maintain it at no cost to the marina. WiFi would not be free, the system would include payment system so boaters could sign on with a credit card.
I would then split the revenue with the marina. Everyone wins.

As Dockhead notes that model is passe. Internet access is now considered a utility. Charging for WiFi is like charging to use the bathrooms.

Charging for WiFi is worse from a customer perception point of view than not having it at all.

I think your repeated analogy of hotels for marinas does not apply. Marinas have long-term slip holders who often have families. Getting the kids to the boat without Internet today is a huge challenge. People bring their work with them and need connectivity. If you can go to McDonalds and get free Internet isn't it a reasonable expectation to have good Internet connectivity at your home marina. Transients similarly expect connectivity and are often even more vocal about it.

I don't argue at all with the concept of contracting WiFi out to professionals as long as the professionals understand the technology is not an end in itself. It is a cog in the machine of customer service. Like every other core service the cost of provision gets built into the basic rates. I posted this before on this thread.

Charging the customer an add-on fee just angers them, like charging for a seat assignment and checked baggage on an airplane.

The WiFi industry is rapidly being put out of business by the cellular industry - faster, often cheaper, more reliable, and ubiquitous.

It's all about the mission and IT professionals often don't understand the mission.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by masonc

There's a model that would solve everything here. If I was in the US, I would probably take a run at it.
As a vendor I would offer to supply a free wireless system. I would install and maintain it at no cost to the marina. WiFi would not be free, the system would include payment system so boaters could sign on with a credit card.
I would then split the revenue with the marina. Everyone wins.

That's close to what's happening around our area. The local wireless vendor -- for the city, and now environs -- put in the system in our home marina, and we pay them directly, relatively nominal fees, and the yearly rate is cheap. Direct pay, via credit card. Small marina, three APs, spread out. Customer service is on them, and they're good at it. Throughput is decent; I can't tell if there are many folks streaming video or whatever.

Don't know about cost to marina; I suspect none for the public net. The marina has it's private net, but I don't know if that's part of what the vendor provides or not. I don't know if they do fee splitting...

-Chris

[Sandero]

It's getting to the point where basic internet is a necessity... and should free like most roads are. The biz model has (devolved) to one of advertising... and so the advertisers should be the ones to pay... not the users...

Tolls on bridges and roads should be gone... maintenance should come from gas tax or DMV registration fee.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

As Dockhead notes that model is passe. Internet access is now considered a utility. Charging for WiFi is like charging to use the bathrooms. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The WiFi industry is rapidly being put out of business by the cellular industry - faster, often cheaper, more reliable, and ubiquitous.

It's all about the mission and IT professionals often don't understand the mission.

I'm not so sure that it is the IT professionals who are at fault, but perhaps their very clients: the marinas, who have customers, we boaters. The clients don't understand the customers' needs/requirements, and/or do but don't have the $$ to invest. Or slow thru-put on weekends is something the marina can live with, even though the customers aren't happy.


There are, are there not, other "models" as previously discussed: data (although pricey for streaming movies, from my limited experience), and what I call "Bump the previous users off" model which I saw in Sidney Marina last September: when you signed in you were presented with a list of previous user names and had to bump one of them off to get "in," and the marina had numerous wifi repeater antennas. There's another one, also new to me, see below.

Originally Posted by ranger42c

That's close to what's happening around our area. The local wireless vendor -- for the city, and now environs -- put in the system in our home marina, and we pay them directly, relatively nominal fees, and the yearly rate is cheap. Direct pay, via credit card. Small marina, three APs, spread out. Customer service is on them, and they're good at it. Throughput is decent; I can't tell if there are many folks streaming video or whatever.

Don't know about cost to marina; I suspect none for the public net. The marina has it's private net, but I don't know if that's part of what the vendor provides or not. I don't know if they do fee splitting...

-Chris

Chris, there is another model I just became aware of: Shaw "On the Go" or something like that. Those who have Shaw telecom accounts here on Vancouver Island get a certain quantity of "slots" (usernames) to use for mobile and computer devices that can connect to the free wifi that Shaw has installed literally all over the place. Businesses, and my own marina, do NOT have "their own" free wifi, but rather use the free Shaw service so that Shaw customers get free wifi wherever they go.

When I'm in Wendy's for a burger with my phone, or at my marina with my phone or computer, I use that service, since the marina does not have "their own" wifi. I don't know what visiting yacht, from say the USA, use when they pull in as guests, or even Canadians without a Shaw account.

Finally, the last model I've heard of is the free wifi some cities are providing, which I have not experienced.

I guess there are a lot of different ways to skin the cat.

I would appreciate comments on these observations, maybe explaining how they work technically beyond my simple "user's experience." While I consider myself relatively experienced in computer use, I am a neophyte when it comes to mobile applications. I got my very first smart phone just last year before we brought our boat up here. My son says I'm a luddite, and makes great fun of me juggling and repeatedly dropping my phone, usually on the ramp to the docks. I reply that I'm getting much better now that he bought me the case for the phone for Xmas - my grubby old hands can't hold a thinner-than-a-pencil piece of slippery plastic!!! At least I got all my music onto the phone (I'd been ripping my CDs one-by-one when I bought them over the years) and just installed a Bluetooth stereo on the boat. It has an AUX input which I use to get great soundtracks from my computer watching movies, although I (gasp!) still use DVDs. I should try Netflix next, right?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Sandero

It's getting to the point where basic internet is a necessity... and should free like most roads are.

Great idea: once they come up with some way to tax internet users to pay for it - just like they do road users with fuel taxes, registration fees etc.

TAANSTAFL.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Finally, the last model I've heard of is the "free" wifi some cities ratepayers are providing.

There , fixed it for you.

[masonc]

It seems to me that liveaboards want to complain that the WiFi is bad, but also refuse to pay for it, as they feel WiFi should be free. While I love free internet and would not stay in a hotel that didn't provide it, that's at $150/night. I don't know much about marina fees, but I think they charge for everything, power, water, CATV, internet, correct me if I am wrong.

[SSgtPitt]

I have learned more about routers, wifi, bandwidth, packets, Apple, Cherry and Raspberry Pi in the last hour reading through this thread and still don't completely "get it", but I'll know enough to understand about hogging all the bandwidth.
The anology of the guy standing in the room and shouting over everyone else but not being able to hear the reply was superb. That made more sense than anything else and started a better understanding of all this.
I suspect that a large population of us boaters don't understand all this and how what one of does effects our neighbors. I have no routers, boosters, antennas yet and use only a MiFi and my cell phone....but I'm not cruising yet. That happens this winter.
So thanks for the info. This will help me in my purchases. I need the biggest, loudest, strongest, fastest equipment I can afford in order to steal as much bandwidth as possible. Just kidding. I also learned i need to turn everything off when coming into the Marina and only turn on what I need once docked.
Oh.....and I have a 5TB drive with movies on it, so I don't stream.