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07-06-2017, 21:54
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#16
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 10,280
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Re: Insurance or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CooksFraming
I would assume the high premium is because the location/hurricane zone.
I would talk to the locals and ask them how many boats damaged last hurricane season. How badly damaged.Then decided if you feel lucky and how much you could afford. $10,000-$20,000-$30,000-$80,000?
Fairly only you can judge that.
I would not leave my boat in hurricane zone if at all possible. I know not what you were looking for.
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Location and competition are is the key issues as I find in S.E. Asia with typhoons and limited marinas
Also insurance companies will NOT just insure for liability only but want you to also have a comprehensive policy to take the risk
I am hoping someone in Asia can advise me differently.???
The other alternative is to dramatically undervalued your hull insurance in order to get the liability cover for Marinas and a cheaper premium.
Has anyone tried that?
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08-06-2017, 03:45
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Boat: Hylas 54
Posts: 259
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Re: Insurance or not?
Thanks all for your thoughts. The boat is certainly in the hurricane belt, but just for this season, we will be moving South in 2018. While a total loss would be painful and might end our sailing plans, it wold not be disastrous to our financial security long term.
But on balance, I think maybe the best approach would be to bite the bullet and pay the $10,000 this year while in hurricane belt, and then reconsider next year. But even out of the belt it will still be around $7000.
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08-06-2017, 04:04
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#18
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 3,009
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Re: Insurance or not?
I never had insurance in all my cruising, and only got liability when a marina required it. Since all insurance companies I've ever dealt with lie, steal, or both, I do as little business with them as possible. I say you're better off on your own.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
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08-06-2017, 07:23
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Queensland Oz
Posts: 295
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Re: Insurance or not?
Some years back now I was quoted 3.5% of the boats value for Oz coastal, & 7% for off shore.
I decided that was too expensive, & went without. At 8 years I would have paid 56% of the boats value in insurance, so was infront of the game, the way I saw it.
I was a bit worried when I slipped at a commercial small cargo boat slipway in Rabaul New Guinea, an earthquake zone. I was surprised to be told that the yards insurance covered me if the boat fell off the slip, even in an earthquake.
What different worlds we live in, & how different our cruising experience.
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08-06-2017, 08:17
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 604
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Re: Insurance or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz
I never had insurance in all my cruising, and only got liability when a marina required it. Since all insurance companies I've ever dealt with lie, steal, or both, I do as little business with them as possible. I say you're better off on your own.
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This is best comment on subject, hands down. To OP - If you have backup funds (and if your boat worth 700K, you probably do), keep your 10K in mind, add it (in your mind) every year to your very personal insurance fund.
This way all these money will stay in your pocket, and IF something happens, you don't have to deal with these greedy insurance companies and you will save your nerves (no fighting with them).
Just be careful and you'll be fine. Liability insurance - only if you must have it (marinas, certain country requirements etc.).
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08-06-2017, 09:14
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: Insurance or not?
Sometimes you can get a list of recommended insurers from the marina or yard. And some may prove to have better rates than what's being mentioned here. It can't hurt to ask.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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08-06-2017, 09:58
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Southern California
Boat: Catalina 320
Posts: 1,314
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Re: Insurance or not?
It's got to depend on how comfortable you would feel with a $700,000 asset uninsured when you are at a distance. I've got a house in the mountains and one at the beach when I'm at one and the other is threatened by natural disaster (fire or flood, it's California after all) I can sleep knowing the loss is minimized. Hopefully I'll be on the boat when the big earthquake hits so I can start over with a boat, 2 vacant lots and a settlement check.
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08-06-2017, 12:16
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 9,319
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Re: Insurance or not?
This isn't a $60,000 boat, it's 700k. The posters saying save the 10k a year and put it into a personal insurance fund aren't doing the math. Loose the boat on a reef and your personal insurance fund would pay for the boat after 70 years. And that's only the boat, not any additional liability like wreck removal or attempted salvage.
__________________
Paul
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08-06-2017, 13:55
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#24
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cat herder, extreme blacksheep
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
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Re: Insurance or not?
wow that is some high bucks insurance .. i pay not much for liability here in a cane zone. no problem. in mexico i use novamar and my minimum liability costs under 200 dollars per year.
hull insurance is hefty. if your boat is high priced boat, you will want to carry appropriate insurance at whatever price the company feels like charging.
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08-06-2017, 14:15
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Near Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Presently between vessels
Posts: 79
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Re: Insurance or not?
This insurance issue interests me greatly.
In the U S my insurance was 0.7% of the hull value. Now I am in Mexico, bound for Panama and the premium is 2%. That was after a search for competitive rates
I really can't believe the insurance companies losses are anywhere near 2% of the boats afloat every year. The deductible vs also 2%. The probability of me making a claim seems very low. I do not feel like I have a good value.
My boat is only about $200k so I will be looking for liability only before the next premium due date. So far, I have only bad data about how to get liability only insurance. Requests to brokers go unanswered...
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08-06-2017, 16:21
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#26
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,033
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Re: Insurance or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
$10,000 per year? Wow, call Pantaenius. I pay less than 1600 pounds (something over $2,000) for very comprehensive insurance for a similar boat of similar value.
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Dock, something odd here, help me understand it. Hobie is right that Marine insurance (of the sort we are talking about here) is typically in the 1% of hull value area (let's say in the .7 - 1.5% range typically). Beth works for a major marine insurer, so I am pretty sure of that.
You are suggesting you are paying something like a quarter of that rate. I certainly believe you but how does that circle get squared? Why you have such inexpensive insurance? Must be some information we are missing here.
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08-06-2017, 17:36
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 541
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Re: Insurance or not?
I left my boat in Puerto Vallarta this summer...my insurance doubled to $4400 CAN from about $2100 to sail just in Canada. Boat is insured at $400k USD and a 40k deductible should the boat be damaged in any named storm, otherwise a 2k deductible.
I am unable to buy hull insurance for crossing to Polynesia next year unless one of my crew has previously done the trip but am able to purchase liability.
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08-06-2017, 19:48
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 14,206
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Re: Insurance or not?
Not long ago I conducted an insurance survey with people here on CF (and SN). The results showed the range of rates people are paying, and also the proportion of people with comprehensive vs liability only. There was also a list of insurers people used for liability only.
If you search the insurance threads I'm sure you can find it.
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08-06-2017, 21:36
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#29
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,184
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Re: Insurance or not?
Quote:
Thanks all for your thoughts. The boat is certainly in the hurricane belt, but just for this season, we will be moving South in 2018. While a total loss would be painful and might end our sailing plans, it wold not be disastrous to our financial security long term.
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Hobie, you might well be able to survive a total loss since it sounds like the boat is not the major portion of your net worth. OK, but what about that dread day when your boat causes major damage to someone's property, perhaps with loss of life or permanent disability to someone (on your boat or another's). Then the potential losses mount well beyond the value of the boat... perhaps, depending on where this takes place, attacking all those assets that gave you the confidence that you could survive the boat loss.
I don't like paying insurance premiums much, but have, after years of cruising 'self insured" decided that there is wisdom in carrying third party (liability) coverage, even where not mandated by law or marina practice. It's always hard to evaluate the dangers of a very high risk, very low probability event, but with litigation being a way of life in so many areas these days, and environmental cleanup costs so high, I reluctantly feel the need for insurance.
I liked it better before...
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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08-06-2017, 23:33
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 235
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Re: Insurance or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Hobie, you might well be able to survive a total loss since it sounds like the boat is not the major portion of your net worth. OK, but what about that dread day when your boat causes major damage to someone's property, perhaps with loss of life or permanent disability to someone (on your boat or another's). Then the potential losses mount well beyond the value of the boat... perhaps, depending on where this takes place, attacking all those assets that gave you the confidence that you could survive the boat loss.
I don't like paying insurance premiums much, but have, after years of cruising 'self insured" decided that there is wisdom in carrying third party (liability) coverage, even where not mandated by law or marina practice. It's always hard to evaluate the dangers of a very high risk, very low probability event, but with litigation being a way of life in so many areas these days, and environmental cleanup costs so high, I reluctantly feel the need for insurance.
I liked it better before...
Jim
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I grew with Jim's comment on the wisdom of having third party insurance. Additionally I think a selfish reason for carrying liability insurance for hobie is that he has significant assets beyond the boat. I assume he is American so even if outside of the US his assets are at risk of US based litigation.
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