Insurance no longer covers sailboat racing

[CaptTom]

Yes, insurance rates take the region into account. But there are lots of other inputs to their calculations. So while you are paying for the mistakes of everyone in you region, you're also paying for those of anyone with your type of boat, your age, gender, experience level and who knows what else.

Anyway, I'm surprised they didn't already require a special racing endorsement. I'm glad that, as a power boater, I'm not paying extra for those other power boaters who engage in racing.

[Slacktime]

Is the committee boat covered?

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Dr. D

BoatUS/Geico used to cover sailboats engaged in racing, though excluded powerboats. Starting with this renewal that has been changed. No boats are covered while racing.

Except if you buy an endorsement for racing. Mine will be 2/3 of the insurance cost. No thanks.

I have had BoatUS (now Geico) insurance since 1996. When I renewed my policy earlier this year I asked if they would cover my boat for a roundtrip trip to Hawaii. Their response was "...only if it is in a race"! I thought it was crazy reasoning. They wouldn't cover me in 2015 but did cover me, for a very reasonable extra premium, in 2016 when I sailed to Hawaii with a total crew of four, some prior offshore experience onboard, and predeparture professional rigging inspection (their requirements).

That thinking parallels some earlier experience when they would not cover a trip to Alaska but they do now.

I get the feeling that they have underwriters that don't sail or have never sailed or fully grasp the actual risk-reward breakdown of the sport. Managers have simply made a flat policy decision to cover their asses without any real-life experience as to what is involved. Unfortunately, I don't think Geico is alone in that thinking.

[lifeofreilly57]

I raced for years, badly, but the crew and I enjoyed it every Wednesday night. Not too many accidents, but a couple of guys did manage to go stupid in a flash, mostly too much testosterone and too little prudent thought.
I never had an issue with insurance, but the insurance companies have made it harder and more expensive over the years. But they've been doing that across the board.
In a typical pattern, I had Seaworthy, who were great to deal with, they were bought by Progressive, right away the price increased, then the restrictions increased, then they demanded surveys more often, then they stopped insuring boats over 20 years old, etc, etc.
I've seen this pattern in other insurance providers, so it will continue.
When I cruised the East Coast my premium was $1800.00 a year, full coverage, cash value on boat, Coast Guard spill limit, the whole enchelada.
When we cruised the Bahamas they only needed a $50.00 rider to cover us. Even though the Bahamas can be challenging due to shallow entrees, shifting bars, hurricanes, etc.
When we headed for the Caribbean they dropped us, so I had to get a broker, the new insurance was $2,800.00 with limitation, including having to be below 12:40 during hurricane season, which is reasonable.
Now back in the states they're requiring another survey, even tough the boat had a full rig inspection and new backstay in Grenada.
It's not just racing, all boat insurance is becoming more expensive and exclusionary in it's nature. It's the profit model.
I don't know if the rush into cruising/boating during covid had an effect as more inexperienced "captains" jumped into the fray and claims went up, or just the market in general. I do know some of the people who were buying boats in the islands, sight unseen and moving aboard during covid had me worried, as do many of the boaters who jumped into the scene in the US with little or no knowledge or experience.
I'm sure there are many contributing factors involved, but without actual factual information available it's just a guess.
I would like to see the CEO bonuses on a yearly scale for the last 10 years, that might be interesting.

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Shrew

If you didn't know any better you'd think it was a rookie who's never helmed a boat with a rudder. They were close, and could have easily turned to port, but no....last second he turns to stbd and collides with the committee boat.

Reminds me of my wife when she first started driving tiller steered dinghy's. She kept pushing the tiller to the side she wanted to turn.

I think he got an unexpected puff (of wind) and the boat turned to weather.

My two cents

[Johan Leopard51]

Insurers tighten every angle they can, as do manufacturers.

In my country for many decades Porsche had a program that each new car came with a 5y 60,000 mile full service plan. It breaks, they fix. Next up Porsche cancelled motor plan if vehicle was taken on a track - despite them organizing many track days. Obviously insurance also followed such that even in an organized track day : no cover.

So an idiot can take his chances at 150 mph on road without runoff areas and one-direction traffic can have both factory warranty and insurance, but zip if goes to an organized track day with gaps between cars and a rule you get kicked out if overtake other than a car coasting with hazards.

I would venture that the guys that do sailing races, and their vessels, are generally a BETTER risk to cover because they are likely more experienced, have better gear, etc. Johnny Bravo that has $500k to buy a sailboat and has 50h on his license is the one that insurers should be wary of.

[Knotical]

See below in red

Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51

Insurers tighten every angle they can, as do manufacturers.

Insurance companies have near absolute power, they will stretch the limits of legality whenever they can; saw the 60 minute (US members) piece on insurance fraud after Ian last night - wow!

In my country for many decades Porsche had a program that each new car came with a 5y 60,000 mile full service plan. It breaks, they fix. Next up Porsche cancelled motor plan if vehicle was taken on a track - despite them organizing many track days. Obviously insurance also followed such that even in an organized track day : no cover.

So an idiot can take his chances at 150 mph on road without runoff areas and one-direction traffic can have both factory warranty and insurance, but zip if goes to an organized track day with gaps between cars and a rule you get kicked out if overtake other than a car coasting with hazards.

I would venture that the guys that do sailing races, and their vessels, are generally a BETTER risk to cover because they are likely more experienced, have better gear, etc. Johnny Bravo that has $500k to buy a sailboat and has 50h on his license is the one that insurers should be wary of.

Totally agree with above - I am sure the rule of probability will prove a lot less incidents that result in claims compared to the number of racers; I am always amazed at how some experienced racers are able to squeeze a 13' beam in a 15' space. (Disclosure - I am a racer too but not as experienced as some in our fleet so we usually take it easy, we race to have fun and are not ultra-competitive)

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

I think he got an unexpected puff (of wind) and the boat turned to weather.

My two cents

I doubt it; gusty conditions, extreme heel angle without much bite from the rudder and a tight main - enough to lead to her rounding up; not sure if wind deflection from the RC boat caused her to round up at that moment and not earlier.

I would blame the skipper (ultimately responsible), designated watcher, mainsheet trimmer, unofficial rail-meat watchers and helmsperson, in that order, there is nothing the helmsperson could do with such a tight main.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by Knotical

there is nothing the helmsperson could do with such a tight main.

He could holler, "Ease the main!"

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51

I would venture that the guys that do sailing races, and their vessels, are generally a BETTER risk to cover because they are likely more experienced, have better gear, etc. Johnny Bravo that has $500k to buy a sailboat and has 50h on his license is the one that insurers should be wary of.

I would love to see numbers on that, because I would be absolutely shocked if that were the case. In SF bay for example, there are a multiple boats that are a total loss almost every year due to racing. And many more claims that are not a total loss. Racers are a small percentage of the total boat owners in SF bay, and without any real investigation it appears they have the majority of claims. All non scientific, just that I figure if two boats collide and it is a total loss for at least one of them, that news gets around. And I just don't see that happening much among non-racers.

Consider also, most boat owners never leave the dock. Those are the low risk policies that insurers want to keep.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

He could holler, "Ease the main!"

True, that’s why unofficial watchers before the helmsperson.

[Dr. D]

So now I have better coverage which includes racing for less money! This is through Maritime International Insurance. The area covered is all US and Canadian navigable waters out to 150 nm. That works for me.