Insurance needed for transient (temporary) dockage?

[Mike OReilly]

My point with rural/remote vs more urban areas is that the former folk are more used to looking after their own problems, probably because they have fewer choices. This means they can't as easily hide behind institutions or other authorities.

If someone slips and hurts themselves on a dock or boat, no one is wondering or worrying about who's going to get sued. If you make an honest mistake and bounce off a neighbour's boat, or take out a part of the dock, no one is going to scream about insurance, or threaten to sue. People get together and figure out the problem.

This is my experience, as someone who tends to wander off the beaten path most of the time. People are less high-strung about most things when you get away from the intensity of dense urban life. I think it's because in smaller communities, you can't hide. If you're an a-hole, everyone is going to know it, and you're going to meet the same people you just jerked around, so you can't be anonymous.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My point with rural/remote vs more urban areas is that the former folk are more used to looking after their own problems, probably because they have fewer choices. This means they can't as easily hide behind institutions or other authorities.

If someone slips and hurts themselves on a dock or boat, no one is wondering or worrying about who's going to get sued. If you make an honest mistake and bounce off a neighbour's boat, or take out a part of the dock, no one is going to scream about insurance, or threaten to sue. People get together and figure out the problem.

This is my experience, as someone who tends to wander off the beaten path most of the time. People are less high-strung about most things when you get away from the intensity of dense urban life. I think it's because in smaller communities, you can't hide. If you're an a-hole, everyone is going to know it, and you're going to meet the same people you just jerked around, so you can't be anonymous.

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

If they don't know you and you are a "foreigner" chances are it won't go well for you

It just depends

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I do wonder if there is a character difference at work as well. The further one is from dense urban areas, the more relaxed people tend to be about all this legal stuff.

There's nothing remote or rural about southern Vancoiuver Island: Victoria, Sidney, Nanaimo ... I've never used a marina in Vancouver, but Howe Sound is daytripping distance from one of Canada's largest metro areas, and I've never been asked about insurance at either of the marinas I've stopped at there. Even for haul-outs and bottom work at an upmarketish marina/boatyard in Sidney they have never asked about insurance.


Now, I do have insurance, so if it's written in some small print that I'm not being asked to read, or if one day they do start asking, then it's no big deal ... but up til now, nobody has ever asked for any reason.

[boatpoker]

I would expect it to be more prevalent in the most litigious country in the world.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

If they don't know you and you are a "foreigner" chances are it won't go well for you

It just depends

My experience is that you tend to get back what you put out. If you present as honest and honourable, then locals will treat you the same. If you come in with a lot of preconceived notions about how the world aught to be, then you'll get the cold shoulder.

I agree BP, and the demand for proof of insurance appears strong, mostly along the east coast of the USA. But a few here have reported similar behaviour in Australia, and some European countries. I don't think of these places as particularly litigious. But that's a pretty distant impression. Perhaps I'm wrong...

ADD: A quick search turned up some rankings for "the most litigious countries." No surprise that the USA is in the top 10, but apparently it's not the worst. Here's a ranking that is based more on business litigation, but might be applicable:

1. Germany
2. Sweden
3. Israel
4. Austria
5. USA
6. UK
7. Denmark
8. Hungary
9. Portugal
10. France

Canada is cited as not being very litigious. I found references to Australia not making the "top" list, but apparently is rapidly increasing in the numbers of lawsuits each year.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My experience is that you tend to get back what you put out. If you present as honest and honourable, then locals will treat you the same. If you come in with a lot of preconceived notions about how the world aught to be, then you'll get the cold shoulder.

I agree BP, and the demand for proof of insurance appears strong, mostly along the east coast of the USA. But a few here have reported similar behaviour in Australia, and some European countries. I don't think of these places as particularly litigious. But that's a pretty distant impression. Perhaps I'm wrong...

NY Times.
"The United States is already the most litigious society in the world. We spend about 2.2 percent of gross domestic product, roughly $310 billion a year, or about $1,000 for each person in the country on tort litigation, much higher than any other country."

[TrentePieds]

In the Canadian part of the Salish Sea a most marinas have reciprocity agreements with other marinas, or one single corporation operates several marinas.

If, therefore, your home marina is e.g. Pedder Bay Marina, a division of Oak Bay Marina Group) and you happen by Ladysmith Marina, also a division of OBMG, as a transient relying on your reciprocity privilege there is no need for Ladysmith to inquire about your insurance. Your moorage contract with Pedder Bay requires that you have liability insurance (though not that you have hull insurance), and it is therefore a given that you are insured against damage you may do to Ladysmith Marina or any vessel present there.

There would be very few Canadian vessels frequenting marinas or government mooring facilities in the Canadian part of the Salish Sea that are NOT homeported in a marina requiring as a term of the moorage contract that the vessel carry liability insurance. Therefore no need to ask CANADIAN vessels about their insurance status.

I should think that a sensible marina management would indeed ask "foreign" vessels, though I do not actually know that.

TrentePieds.

[pcmm]

When I did my trip through the Erie to NYC I found that on the Erie no-one asked for proof of insurance for a single overnight stay. As soon as I got to NYC i had to provide proof of insurance for transient dockage.

Similar here on Lake Ontario its a bit hit and miss for marina's wanting to see poof of insurnace or transient dockage, though I have noticed that Municipaly run marinas are more of a stickler for this information.

Either way I now carry full coverage as th cost difference between liability with $2M coverage and full coverage made it a no-brainer choice ($540 liability only vs $800 for full coverage for the year)

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by pcmm

When I did my trip through the Erie to NYC I found that on the Erie no-one asked for proof of insurance for a single overnight stay. As soon as I got to NYC i had to provide proof of insurance for transient dockage.

Similar here on Lake Ontario its a bit hit and miss for marina's wanting to see poof of insurnace or transient dockage, though I have noticed that Municipaly run marinas are more of a stickler for this information.

Either way I now carry full coverage as th cost difference between liability with $2M coverage and full coverage made it a no-brainer choice ($540 liability only vs $800 for full coverage for the year)

I'm curious if you notice any difference between Canadian and American marinas? My travels in and through the GL was done back in 2000 to 2015. In all this time I was never even asked about insurance when accessing marinas for transient stays. But most of these stays (90%) were Canadian marinas, and it's now 2023, so my experience there is getting rather old.

[Shrew]

American marinas on the East coast of the US.

Transient: NEVER

Seasonal Contracts: YES almost 100% of the time.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Shrew

American marinas on the East coast of the US.

Transient: NEVER

Seasonal Contracts: YES almost 100% of the time.

Same with me, on both.

This is what's confusing... many are reporting insurance demands for transient stays on the east coast of the US. Yet others, like yourself, say it doesn't happen, or is rare. I don't doubt anyone's reports, so why so variable?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Same with me, on both.

This is what's confusing... many are reporting insurance demands for transient stays on the east coast of the US. Yet others, like yourself, say it doesn't happen, or is rare. I don't doubt anyone's reports, so why so variable?

There's a decent chance that it's officially policy at many places, but it's hit or miss as to whether the employees actually ask about it or mention it.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Same with me, on both.

This is what's confusing... many are reporting insurance demands for transient stays on the east coast of the US. Yet others, like yourself, say it doesn't happen, or is rare. I don't doubt anyone's reports, so why so variable?

The extent of cruising is limited to New York and the New England states. We day boat (Trailer) in South Carolina and Florida. I wouldn't be surprised if marina's in the hurricane belt ask for liability insurance, particularly during hurricane season. However that is speculation.

[CaptJimFrei]

Never been asked for proof of insurance at any marina in VA, NC, or SC as a transient.

Even the marina where my boat is permanently docked requires it (but no minimum or specifics) in the lease, but never asks for proof nor even requires marina to be additionally insured...big mistake in my opinion.

[jalmberg]

I agrée. Most places in the US don’t care for a short term tie up, but some places do, even for use of a mooring. Nearly all do for haul outs, in my experience (up and down the east coast. I guess it d’éperon how recently they’ve been sued!