How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by newhaul

they didn't call it the poop deck for nothing

It's called the head (Actually the "heads") because the old square riggers couldn't point up into the wind - so everybody went to the downwind side of the bowsprit rigging at the bow (the "heads" of the ship) to do their business.

[Scorpius]

For those of you using the "animals do it so why shouldn't we?" argument, note that we are now the most populous mammal on the planet - and therefore generate more poop than any other even taking into consideration relative size. That's right folks, there's more of us than whales, seals, sea lions, rats or mice. So don't poop in congested waters!

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

For those of you using the "animals do it so why shouldn't we?" argument, note that we are now the most populous mammal on the planet - and therefore generate more poop than any other even taking into consideration relative size. That's right folks, there's more of us than whales, seals, sea lions, rats or mice. So don't poop in congested waters!

Not To Mention all the other SH*t We Convienenly Flush in to Our Protected Waters.
It takes very little to figure out why, only an open Mind.
SV Cloud Duster

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

they didn't call it the poop deck for nothing

The French word for “stern” is “la poupe.”, derived from the from the Latin “puppis”, which is where the term “poop deck” originated.

[jholovacs]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

For those of you using the "animals do it so why shouldn't we?" argument, note that we are now the most populous mammal on the planet - and therefore generate more poop than any other even taking into consideration relative size. That's right folks, there's more of us than whales, seals, sea lions, rats or mice. So don't poop in congested waters!

Google doesn't necessarily agree with you... https://www.google.com/search?q=most...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Northbound44]

Originally Posted by jholovacs

When I bought my first sailboat from an old-salt Canadian last year, he was methodically going over the systems with me, educating me with his decades of accumulated sailing experience. When we got to the heads/ holding tanks/ macerator systems, he told me-- very matter-of-factly, as he knew it was my first sailboat-- that you're not allowed to dump in US Territorial waters, but "nobody I know ever takes that rule seriously", going so far as to give me instructions on how to do it on the DL while cruising down the ICW, also showing me how to default the y-valve for the port to "off" in case I ever got boarded by the Coast Guard... I guess the CG can give you a ticket if your system is "dump-ready"?



Naturally, I took this with a grain of salt, but it's also the first boat I've owned that had actual toilets where this was a possible thing to do. At the time, I just made a mental note and we continued on through the orientation.



I've now had my boat for a year, and I've been working on getting it set up the way I want it to be (electronics, wiring, batteries, solar, rigging, etc...) and I'm anticipating being able to get out of the marina and putting it on the hook long-term nearer my home, where I'd go out for regular weekend trips, and will no longer have convenient pumpout services available to me... now sewage management is suddenly something I need to consider carefully, and his words are coming back to mind.



Is he right? Deluded? A threat to society? Is it actually a big deal? There's some scary laws around high fines and the whatnot, but I've also never heard of the "Poo Police" running around issuing tickets or pressing charges. It's gross, but lots of animals do their business in the water all the time, so it doesn't seem like it's a big deal. What's the real story here?

Be aware, poop police exist and I saw them in action, jumping on my boat without notice while underway in the ICW , my wife was terrified. They check and go without saying goodbye...
https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...-river-florida

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by rogue trader

perhaps a seat conected to a 12inch plastic rigged over the stern of the boat like in the days of drake ect (towel for modesty of course).

Actually, that would be an illegal Marine Sanitation Device (MSD.) An irony of the law is that you can "go" over the side legally, but nail a toilet seat there and sit on it to "go" and you're breaking the law.

Similarly, within 3 miles of shore you can eat a bucket of KFC chicken and poop the waste out over the side, but if you throw the bones over the side, you're breaking the law.

You can't make this stuff up.

Originally Posted by Northbound44

Be aware, poop police exist and I saw them in action, jumping on my boat without notice while underway in the ICW , my wife was terrified. They check and go without saying goodbye...
https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...-river-florida

Interesting article, thanks. As I said earlier, I think the days of waste treatment systems on small boats are over. It seems every jurisdiction is working to declare their area a NDZ.

The article mentions how the jurisdiction asking for the NDZ has to prove that there are enough pump-outs available. Because of this, there's all kinds of money available to set up pump-out stations and even pump-out boats, prior to the NDZ declaration. Once that's done, there's no motive to maintain those stations or boats.

We've already beaten to death the subject of the hypocrisy of going after recreational boaters and ignoring the problems of municipal, industrial and agricultural waste.

[Jason Flare]

I thought that peeing or pooping off the side of a boat was illegal as it was “discharge from a vessel,” while jumping in the water and peeing or pooping was not illegal because it was not a discharge from a vessel.

Is there a link somewhere to peeing off the side being legal?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

--- Then you still have to do “something” with the remains. Many say just throw them into a dumpster, but how does that deal with the pathogens?...

From a legal perspective, I have not found a jurisdiction that prohibits placing diapers in the trash, so the same rule would seem to hold here. Common courtesy is to place it in the dumpster, not a can next to a bench in the park (which has been a problem some places).


(I don't have a composting head, but I did ask some harbor masters and do some searching.)

[crooks]

Originally Posted by Mediator

I can't argue that how some cities approach wastewater management is anything short of criminal.

However I would hope that most cruisers here would aspire to hold themselves to a higher standard. It really isn't that hard to pump out every now and then when you're in the United States. Dumping your effluent into a waterway used by thousands of people a day out of laziness really doesn't resonate with me.

Atlanta has paid many millions in fines and is spending billions on the fix.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by thinwater

From a legal perspective, I have not found a jurisdiction that prohibits placing diapers in the trash, so the same rule would seem to hold here.

You would think that would be the case, but it really isn't. Diapers are "legal" simply because anything else would disrupt a billion dollar industry and make the women in the world go to war with legislators. Period. Nothing to do with safety or cleanliness. Dog poop is "legal" because govt requires it be picked up. If it wasn't legal to dump, can't enforce picking it up.
Human poop, adult (non diaper) is illegal in most jurisdictions. Up to $10,000 fine for transport on the highway (bagged/bottled does not matter) if the DOT catches you in a commercial vehicle or placing the bag in a dumpster. Makes no logical sense. When I hauled to the landfill (commercial dumpster, roll offs, and household garbage service) we were charged extra for dumping sewage related materials (various stages of processed waste) and I see most landfills seeing $$$ as composting heads become more common.

[Woodland Hills]

What about Victoria, BC? Do they still pump directly into the sea or do they treat it first now? I tried to look up Nassau, where we are today and it appears as though they treat first. I don’t know about the other islands though. I doubt it, which is sort of ironic given how they go after the cruise ships for their dumping.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

Human poop, adult (non diaper) is illegal in most jurisdictions. Up to $10,000 fine for transport on the highway (bagged/bottled does not matter) if the DOT catches you in a commercial vehicle or placing the bag in a dumpster. Makes no logical sense. When I hauled to the landfill (commercial dumpster, roll offs, and household garbage service) we were charged extra for dumping sewage related materials (various stages of processed waste) and I see most landfills seeing $$$ as composting heads become more common.

sorry but I have to throw the bs flag on that one . Have you never seen a septic pumping service truck?

Also heres one for you a potting soil by the brand Tagro. It is made from human waste .
https://www.cityoftacoma.org/cms/one.aspx?pageId=16884

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

What about Victoria, BC? Do they still pump directly into the sea or do they treat it first now? I tried to look up Nassau, where we are today and it appears as though they treat first. I don’t know about the other islands though. I doubt it, which is sort of ironic given how they go after the cruise ships for their dumping.

they still directly discharge just across the border from my local waters which as of last December is now a NDZ in the United States.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by newhaul

sorry but I have to throw the bs flag on that one . Have you never seen a septic pumping service truck?

Also heres one for you a potting soil by the brand Tagro. It is made from human waste .
https://www.cityoftacoma.org/cms/one.aspx?pageId=16884

Originally Posted by newhaul

sorry but I have to throw the bs flag on that one . Have you never seen a septic pumping service truck?

Also heres one for you a potting soil by the brand Tagro. It is made from human waste .
https://www.cityoftacoma.org/cms/one.aspx?pageId=16884

Actually I drove 2,500 gallon, 3,000 gallon, and 5,000 gallon pumper trucks when I did that for a living, so yes I have seen them. Pumped out septic tanks with them. Pumped into the county sewage treatment plant with them as well. Twice a year worked the Talladega SuperSpeedway pumping out RV black and grey water tanks @ $25 a pump. I will never forget when a teenager mad at his dad flushed a dasani bottle. Truck sucked it about a foot into the 2.5in hose before my day started getting longer. Sitting in a field full of half naked women with a sewage hose in your lap trying to fish out a water bottle, them was good times. 1-water bottle wasn't the only item in the hose. 2-apparently human excrement isn't a chick magnet, go figure. The city waste treatment plant utilizes holding ponds that reduce the treated human excrement to a thick "mud/dirt"(we hauled it in roll off containers) like substance that meets all regulations required for dumping into the landfill, even they had to pre-arrange dumping AND pay extra dumping fees related to human waste. What makes you think a marina would be exempt? As soon as landfills realize it, they will charge for it. It's all about the money.
Yes, I have seen a sewage pumping truck. Have you? Have you ever been employed where transport and disposal of sewage was your daily job? Have you ever emptied a commercial truck at a landfill and had to answer for anything that went *plop* when it hit the ground? I know for a fact every landfill I delivered to watched every dump looking for prohibited or regulated items and charged extra whenever they found them. Federal regs (US) allow them to upcharge on bio materials and they take full advantage of that.