Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2020, 05:29   #151
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 8,326
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Laws like the MSD/dumping laws are mainly not idiotic so much as they are written for (and because of) idiots. In the absence of common sense about when and where to dump, a hard, bright line is easy to convey and enforce. Also remember that 80+% of recreational boats with heads are mainly daytrippers or weekenders (and their landlubber guests), whose boating smarts are not at the level of the average serious cruiser.

When you come to a stop sign on a country road at 3 AM, and you can see that there's no traffic anywhere near the intersection, it's still illegal if you don't come to a full stop. This is because it's a simple, consistent law that's easy to understand and enforce. Provide any leeway in the law, and some idiots will bend it, enforcement becomes harder and accidents go up.

Finally, if I understand correctly, some US NDZs have been set up because of loopholes in the Clean Water Act that allow freighters and even cruiseliners to dump. In those cases, declaring an NDZ closes that loophole. Again, it's easier to enforce if it applies to all vessels regardless of size.
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 06:01   #152
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 32,972
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Laws like the MSD/dumping laws are mainly not idiotic so much as they are written for (and because of) idiots. In the absence of common sense about when and where to dump, a hard, bright line is easy to convey and enforce. Also remember that 80+% of recreational boats with heads are mainly daytrippers or weekenders (and their landlubber guests), whose boating smarts are not at the level of the average serious cruiser.

When you come to a stop sign on a country road at 3 AM, and you can see that there's no traffic anywhere near the intersection, it's still illegal if you don't come to a full stop. This is because it's a simple, consistent law that's easy to understand and enforce. Provide any leeway in the law, and some idiots will bend it, enforcement becomes harder and accidents go up.

Finally, if I understand correctly, some US NDZs have been set up because of loopholes in the Clean Water Act that allow freighters and even cruiseliners to dump. In those cases, declaring an NDZ closes that loophole. Again, it's easier to enforce if it applies to all vessels regardless of size.

That's a very reasonable comment, applying to and well explaining many of these laws.


Not all of the laws are non-idiotic, however.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 06:16   #153
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 19,061
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

What people seem to not understand is that American poop is “special”
__________________
It is OK if others want to do it different on THEIR boat
sailorboy1 is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 07:04   #154
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 8,326
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
What people seem to not understand is that American poop is “special”
Exceptional. I think that's the word you're after.

Canadian poop is unassuming, self-effacing and generally pleasant to be around. Right Mike?
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 07:06   #155
Registered User
 
flyingfin's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cape Haze,FL
Boat: Carver,Cobia,Nacra, Columbia
Posts: 803
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Puget Sound is now a NDZ, no discharge from any vessel. Their waste is now collected by pump-out stations and fully treated by land-based treatment plants. Problem solved,,,,,oops

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...each-closures/
flyingfin is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 07:17   #156
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 74
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

The state of Florida prohibits dumping inside of 9 miles from the shore on the west coast and 3 miles or the edge of the Gulfstream whichever is greater on the east coast.
tomlisasail is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:08   #157
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cambridge MD
Boat: Carter offshore 35
Posts: 391
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

How about 20 boats on a beach with 50 people drinking beer while standing in the water waist deep?
DeborahLee is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:11   #158
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 11,142
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeborahLee View Post
How about 20 boats on a beach with 50 people drinking beer while standing in the water waist deep?
yes they can pee but I wouldn't want to be near that crowd of drunkards .

Soon they will be committing a felony ( in my state ) called BUI ( boating under the influence)
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:22   #159
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 13,104
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeborahLee View Post
How about 20 boats on a beach with 50 people drinking beer while standing in the water waist deep?

The typical indoor pool actually contains of to 75 litres of urine, according to one research project that looked into it.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:32   #160
Registered User
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Aboard
Boat: Hatteras CPMY 63’
Posts: 900
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
yes they can pee but I wouldn't want to be near that crowd of drunkards .

Soon they will be committing a felony ( in my state ) called BUI ( boating under the influence)
Not if they have 20 non-drinkers like me around. There is no law, that I know about, preventing a passenger on a boat from being intoxicated. Certainly none preventing those standing in shallow water from being “over the limit” since there is no limit for them. They just can’t boat, drive or be disorderly AFAIK.
Woodland Hills is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 09:19   #161
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 11,142
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
Not if they have 20 non-drinkers like me around. There is no law, that I know about, preventing a passenger on a boat from being intoxicated. Certainly none preventing those standing in shallow water from being “over the limit” since there is no limit for them. They just can’t boat, drive or be disorderly AFAIK.
Unless rhere us a strict law concerning public intoxication you would be correct however the presented senario said 50 people drinking and 20 boats . No words about designated sailors
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 10:28   #162
Registered User
 
Woodland Hills's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Aboard
Boat: Hatteras CPMY 63’
Posts: 900
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Public intoxication laws are only enforced against the disorderly: ever been to an NFL game?
Not to quibble, but the scenario mentioned the people in the water, not those who chose to stay onboard. There could be another 50 or more people onboard spread out in the 20 boats..... who knows? I do know that whenever I’ve passed by places like “The Sandbar” there have always been lots of bikini girls who stayed on board! Being young female and attractive does not mean you can’t drive a boat as good as anyone else.
Woodland Hills is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 10:46   #163
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 11,142
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
Public intoxication laws are only enforced against the disorderly: ever been to an NFL game?
Not to quibble, but the scenario mentioned the people in the water, not those who chose to stay onboard. There could be another 50 or more people onboard spread out in the 20 boats..... who knows? I do know that whenever I’ve passed by places like “The Sandbar” there have always been lots of bikini girls who stayed on board! Being young female and attractive does not mean you can’t drive a boat as good as anyone else.
Ever been to an unlimited hydroplane race? Here they average 150 BUI tickes each day of the 3 day event . There is also at least one BUI related fatality each year as well. That is one death to many
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline  
Old 08-02-2020, 12:09   #164
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,210
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Legal =/= Ethical

Example: In Michigan there is still a law on the books that a woman can not get her hair cut without her husbands permission...

By your statement it would seem you think it unethical for a woman to get her hair cut without permission....hmmm...
Sorry. get a life.
Cadence is offline  
Old 09-02-2020, 02:27   #165
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,643
Re: How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Sorry. get a life.
Already have one...not sure I could handle two at a time.
valhalla360 is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
grass

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flushing poo with poo amiller Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 23 05-02-2020 13:58
Winlink-3rd Party Rules to be enforced AA3JY Marine Electronics 19 14-11-2019 13:57
How many Policy Holders on Marine Insurance Policy? Sailor647 Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 8 27-07-2018 13:47
Newly Enforced BVI Rules & Regulations SVAspen Atlantic & the Caribbean 24 08-10-2016 14:59
Old Florida anchoring law being enforced! keyspc Liveaboard's Forum 7 23-06-2011 19:32

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.