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29-06-2018, 09:41
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds
Under stress a clove hitch can jam beyond the possibility of your opening it with your fingers. A tugboat hitch NEVER jams like that, even under enormous stress, which is why it is used to belay the towing hawser to the bitts.
TP
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Indeed. Clove hitch is fantastically convenient, but is not suitable for this application. Jams, and is quite insecure.
Round turn and two half hitches is good for this, but I normally just throw a loop over one of these as I prefer adjusting from on board anyway.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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29-06-2018, 10:08
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,764
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L
The virtue of a cleat, bitt or bollard is that you are NOT tying a knot to secure the boat. At least for me the idea is that the line can be freed in a second without undoing of any knot. I know the tugboat hitch but I am not sure how I'd employ it on this bitt. I had thought that the H-bitt was especially useful for when you wanted to be able to control the speed and amount of the line exiting, not just to secure it, but could be wrong. . . .
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You are right! The H bitt is supreme for handling a spring line when a boat is being sprung off, for example. But being good for this, doesn't exclude the other!
To each his own, but I frequently employ knots on cleats and bitts, especially when I will be tied up somewhere for a longer period of time. The so-called "cleat hitch" -- not a hitch at all IMHO -- is not really secure without the locking turn, and the locking turn makes it prone to jamming. I don't use the locking turn (as I was instructed in my childhood), but I use a loop or a knot if I'm going to be tied up for a long time, at least, on the land side of the mooring line.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
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29-06-2018, 10:27
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Llanstadwell, Wales
Boat: Telstar 26 Mk2
Posts: 5
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S
They are a "Double bollard H Type cleat" mirror polished stainless steel.
I tied up to some yesterday with a single cleat hitch and it slipped - 2 hitches and it slipped. I doubled up the ropes and went back to the cleat on my boat, a single hitch going out to the dock cleat then returning with another single back on my boat.
I went for a walk around the marina and it seems no one else knows either, some attempts are worth a laugh but even boats you would expect to have professional crew didn't seem to do a good job of it.
Tried to Google it - no good
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One turn, one figure of eight and one locking hitch.
Always clockwise so that you know how to untie in the dark.
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29-06-2018, 10:28
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#20
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,192
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
I'm terribly old-fashioned :-)! I do whatever is required to come alongside and secure TEMPORARILY for crew to disembark. As I'm a fairweather sailor, usually nothing is required other than to slick the boat up alongside the pontoon. If a dock gorilla is present and keen, I'll give him something to play with while SOPs are executed by myself or crew :-). The gorilla is a distraction because as soon as we are dead in the water alongside, crew or I will belay to the "bullrail" that is ubiquitous here with a round turn and two half hitches. A "tail" of half-a-fathom or so is permitted on the pontoon, and is neatly tucked in along or under the rail. Lines are then belayed aboard, and any excess length is flemished on deck rather than on the pontoon.
As I've said before, I abhor eyes in the ends of dock lines. If you know your Ashley's there is absolutely no need for them, and for those of us who singlehand ANYTHING that can hang up ashore detracts from the safety and elegance with which you can depart :-)
TP
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29-06-2018, 14:33
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#21
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds
Under stress a clove hitch can jam beyond the possibility of your opening it with your fingers. A tugboat hitch NEVER jams like that, even under enormous stress, which is why it is used to belay the towing hawser to the bitts.
TP
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Agreed.
In addition, a mooring hitch should be capable of easing gradually when tying and untying.
And thirdly, a clove hitch can slip gradually under cyclic loads.
Overall - it's not at all suitable for mooring/towing attachment
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29-06-2018, 14:37
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#22
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beco
One turn, one figure of eight and one locking hitch.
Always clockwise so that you know how to untie in the dark.
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Disagree completely. Direction depends on the direction of the load entering the cleat.
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29-06-2018, 16:31
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,192
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Agreed! And — let's go for perfection here — the tension on the standing part of the line should always be angled at PRECISELY 7 1/2º to the alignment of the horn cleat ;-0)!
TP
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30-06-2018, 11:21
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bay of Fundy,Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 3,217
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Traditional Eastern Canada Bitt.
Nova Scotia Bit.jpg
Views: 326
Size: 72.4 KB
ID: 172775" style="margin: 2px" />
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
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30-06-2018, 12:16
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#25
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,192
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
I like those a lot!
I always have had a problem with yotting gear. ***** and briney always seems to take precedence of sturdy and functional :-)!
TP
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30-06-2018, 18:18
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Coffs Harbour
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,559
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
I checked out your Bullrail TrenePieds.
A lot more than ½ fathom on the dock but otherwise well done ?
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30-06-2018, 18:51
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#27
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,192
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Yes, that's really quite acceptable :-)
Note that she's tieing the after breast on the bight. Need's must when the devil rides :-)
As I mentioned, we reset the lines, one after the other, after we are secure. Our bullrails are 4 x 4 timber all over this coast, and because of that uniformity lines can be made up to appropriate length. TP's breasts and springs are marked as to position, and they are hung in sequence in the locker so there is no doubt as to their particular employment.
Needless to say, longer lines are available for "non-standard" applications.
A very small quibble: The lady steps off facing the pontoon. SOP in TP is to step off facing the boat as, IMO, that confers greater safety given that you can hold on to the gate stanchions keeping one foot on the rail until you feel solid pontoon under your other foott, and you can easily haul yourself back aboard if need be. This is, IMO, even more important in boats with greater freeboard where there can be a temptation to jump several feet.
Nevertheless, that young woman would be welcome aboard TP any time :-)!
TP
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30-06-2018, 21:07
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Queensland Oz
Posts: 295
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Always a loop on the jetty bollard & the bitter end tied on the boat, never the other way round. Unless you can untie on the boat you have lost control of your destiny.
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01-07-2018, 02:12
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bay of Fundy,Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 3,217
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
Yacht version
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
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06-07-2018, 07:57
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 6,356
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?
They make great places to chain and lock your dinghy
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