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Old 06-07-2018, 08:30   #31
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
TP's breasts and springs are marked as to position, and they are hung in sequence in the locker so there is no doubt as to their particular employment.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I've marked our breast and spring lines with colored zip ties. Only I have the key to the color code. Now, where'd I put it?
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:05   #32
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Don't you keep it on a lanyard around your neck? Have you looked :-)??

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Old 06-07-2018, 09:09   #33
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Just like big ships - eye over shore fitting, bitter end secured inboard.
Mooring ropes wrapped around the shore fitting looks like a snakes wedding.

And if single handing, it is easy to drop the eye over most shore fittings with a boat hook, or even throw over. Then can control vessel with engine and rope tension to get neatly alongside. Generally with admiring smiles, especially as bow thruster hasn’t been screeching away.
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Old 24-08-2018, 16:21   #34
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Another mooring bitt.


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Old 27-11-2019, 11:12   #35
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

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Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
I checked out your Bullrail TrenePieds.

A lot more than ˝ fathom on the dock but otherwise well done ?



I personally would never step of our boat before it is secured. Of course, this was dead calm conditions and the boat isn’t going anywhere, and it is not a 40 ton vessel like ours, but I hate the idea of the vessel blowing away from the dock with no way to retrieve it. I remember once docking in dead calm conditions like this.

And, don’t get me started on “Dock Hands”! I do not trust handing/throwing my dock lines to a dock hand. Do marines not bother to train dick hands on how to clear a line, or not to pull the bow in tight and force the Saturn out? Why do people not understand “cleat it!”? Instead, the say “I’ve got it.”. No, you don’t! The vessel will pull you right into the water, if it doesn’t pull it out of your hands first!

Rant over...
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Old 27-11-2019, 11:13   #36
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

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Disagree completely. Direction depends on the direction of the load entering the cleat.


Exactly!
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Old 27-11-2019, 12:06   #37
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

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On bigger yachts, they keep your line adjustment onboard, often using winches to tighten.
Not just bigger. I run all lines from boat to dock and back again presuming I can find long enough dock lines.

Dockhands are the greatest single hazard to cruisers. You have to be self-sufficient.
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Old 27-11-2019, 12:33   #38
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Well, if we are reviving this thread, maybe for the benefit of any newbs who may happen along:

Absolutely! Last (competent) man must not step off the vessel until she's secure. So let's discuss "secure" :-)

Generally, when I'm single-handing, or have no competent crew, I can find a weather side of a pontoon to come alongside. Thus the risk of TP departing without me is reduced to a negligible probability because the wind will hold 'er. The fore-after spring is hung on the lifelines in preparation, and to get it belayed on the bullrail is but a few seconds of work - call it 10 seconds. I just timed it :-). But don't mess up while you are doing it :-)!

Due to the roller furling jib, which is a former owner's retrofit much deplored by me, she will then tend to "nose in" to the point where I cannot step back aboard at the gates. But she is only a five-tonner so to hop over the life lines at the point where she's kissing the pontoon is no trick at all. Thereafter the usual "slow ahead" (engaged in idle, actually), rudder over "a hand" will bring the gates back to the pontoon. Thereafter the tidying up, bitter ends aboard as someone rightly pointed out, is child's play, and therefore a excellent teaching opportunity if there are greenhorns aboard.

If I cannot find a weather side of a pontoon, I'll go somewhere else for preference, but if that isn't viable, then we get down to the more sophisticated techniques. We all know how ferry skippers hold their vessels in their slips by maintaining thrust and a touch of rudder while they are there. Works for me too. I will, e.g., find a nice "inside" corner on the LEEWARD side of the pontoons where I can lodge my cutwater maintaining sufficient thrust to hold 'er while I get a line ashore. Because TP is only a five-ton toy, there is no trick to getting ashore, carrying the forward breast with plenty of scope, by climbing over the pulpit. The old-fashioned kapok "life vests" make excellent "puddings" to spare the gelcoat. I choose the leeward side of the pontoons so that on departing I can just let the wind drift me into the clear before I start maneuvering. In a spot like that there is no sense in backing out under power since the prop walk gets to be a nuisance.

I have a bee in my bonnet about people stepping off facing the dock/pontoon. That's a sure way to twist an ankle or worse. At my gates you can hold onto a convenient halyard winch on the house top while you keep one hind leg on the rail and stretch out the other behind you so that you can feel the pontoon beneath it once we are close enuff to the pontoon that you can step off safely BACKWARDS. If for some reason we don't get that close you can just haul yourself back aboard and we'll try again :-).

Similarly, there is an absolute prohibition against carrying a "lazy man's load". Things to go ashore are kept aboard until we are totally secured. In coming ashore (or coming aboard) they are HANDED over the rail, and the despatcher does not let go of his hold on them till the receiver sez "got it". When single-handing I leave things, or put them, on the side deck immediately next to the gates so they don't have to be carried while I step on or off the boat.

Here is a clip of a nice approach. However, as per above, I'd have had the man who leaps ashore at 2:38 at the Defaulters' Table if I had been the skipper.



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Old 27-11-2019, 13:50   #39
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Well, if we are reviving this thread, maybe for the benefit of any newbs who may happen along:

Absolutely! Last (competent) man must not step off the vessel until she's secure. So let's discuss "secure" :-)

Generally, when I'm single-handing, or have no competent crew, I can find a weather side of a pontoon to come alongside. Thus the risk of TP departing without me is reduced to a negligible probability because the wind will hold 'er. The fore-after spring is hung on the lifelines in preparation, and to get it belayed on the bullrail is but a few seconds of work - call it 10 seconds. I just timed it :-). But don't mess up while you are doing it :-)!

Due to the roller furling jib, which is a former owner's retrofit much deplored by me, she will then tend to "nose in" to the point where I cannot step back aboard at the gates. But she is only a five-tonner so to hop over the life lines at the point where she's kissing the pontoon is no trick at all. Thereafter the usual "slow ahead" (engaged in idle, actually), rudder over "a hand" will bring the gates back to the pontoon. Thereafter the tidying up, bitter ends aboard as someone rightly pointed out, is child's play, and therefore a excellent teaching opportunity if there are greenhorns aboard.

If I cannot find a weather side of a pontoon, I'll go somewhere else for preference, but if that isn't viable, then we get down to the more sophisticated techniques. We all know how ferry skippers hold their vessels in their slips by maintaining thrust and a touch of rudder while they are there. Works for me too. I will, e.g., find a nice "inside" corner on the LEEWARD side of the pontoons where I can lodge my cutwater maintaining sufficient thrust to hold 'er while I get a line ashore. Because TP is only a five-ton toy, there is no trick to getting ashore, carrying the forward breast with plenty of scope, by climbing over the pulpit. The old-fashioned kapok "life vests" make excellent "puddings" to spare the gelcoat. I choose the leeward side of the pontoons so that on departing I can just let the wind drift me into the clear before I start maneuvering. In a spot like that there is no sense in backing out under power since the prop walk gets to be a nuisance.

I have a bee in my bonnet about people stepping off facing the dock/pontoon. That's a sure way to twist an ankle or worse. At my gates you can hold onto a convenient halyard winch on the house top while you keep one hind leg on the rail and stretch out the other behind you so that you can feel the pontoon beneath it once we are close enuff to the pontoon that you can step off safely BACKWARDS. If for some reason we don't get that close you can just haul yourself back aboard and we'll try again :-).

Similarly, there is an absolute prohibition against carrying a "lazy man's load". Things to go ashore are kept aboard until we are totally secured. In coming ashore (or coming aboard) they are HANDED over the rail, and the despatcher does not let go of his hold on them till the receiver sez "got it". When single-handing I leave things, or put them, on the side deck immediately next to the gates so they don't have to be carried while I step on or off the boat.

Here is a clip of a nice approach. However, as per above, I'd have had the man who leaps ashore at 2:38 at the Defaulters' Table if I had been the skipper.



TP

I am commenting on SINGLE handed docking ,with no dock hands,of any boat that is safe for single handing. I will leave it to the readers to decide how much tonnage/length of vessel/wx conditions is safe for single handing. Keep in mind that good practice requires that you not only be capable of leaving the dock,voyaging,& then docking the vessel in a place & in conditions that may be much worse than when you departed-All by yourself!


TP

Your method of stepping ashore with the bow spring works.
But,as you say,it requires that you dock on the windward weather side of dock or risk losing the vessel or, at least the stern, & causing you much grunt work.
If you were to have a midship line cleated to your vessel,coiled & hung by the gate, good sized fenders- a ft. either side of gate, step ashore,wrap this line around whatever- and your boat is tied up.
The bow cannot pivot in or out & neither can the stern.

Take your time putting out normal lines. Len
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Old 27-11-2019, 14:18   #40
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

I love docking treads. For their amusement value.


At least 1/3 of the posts suffer from a declarative statement to which disagreement is said to cry "poor seamanship" out load. Most are at best "shoulds" and more likely "my habit is." Oddly, I've broken at least half of the rules thousands of time (literally) without any misadventure or consequence.


My favorite is "never step off a boat that is not secured." I'm pretty sure that is less safe much of the time, than stepping off in the right way. It just depends on the dock, the boat, the person, and the situation. Some people have no balance, some do. Heck, my current boat (not that in the avitar) has no railings to grab, so there.



If I had one word of wisdom, it is to have a plan. As you approach observe the direction of wind and tide. Consider which corners of you boat are safely to work from and which not so. What is your crew situation, or are you singlehanded? Do you have a bow thruster, twin engines, or a steerable drive? Where are the safe zones? What is your escape plan if you have misjudged? I've used many methods, and several times I have declined the slip (tide flowing under floating docks can be treacherous, since they often lack dolphins).


I'm not going to say "do it this way."
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Old 27-11-2019, 15:03   #41
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

OK, this is going to be a non-sequitur because I haven't read the thread, but I like this pic and think it's relevant to the OP.
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Old 27-11-2019, 15:05   #42
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Ah yes, Len - you caught me flatfooted :-)

I shoulda said, but didn't: I lead my fore-after spring through the midships chock for the very reason that I can then "pivot" in the manner you allude to. Not "big ship practice", but for TP it works beautifully. Not for nothing do we refer to ships as "she". You GOTTA learn to work harmoniously with the one you have :-)!

I have another clip I love to use for teaching purposes. But bear in mind, now, that I mean no disparagement of the individuals involved in this muck-up. Rather, since it turned out alright in the end, we should give thanks to them for providing so wonderful an object lesson in just why you MUST have a plan before you approach anything hard or expensive:



Skipper may have been taken aback by loss of ability to back water since I see no screw water indicating an attempt to extricate himself. Thus a lesson speaking in favour of always testing your tranny by laying the ship dead while you have room to turn and skive off out to sea again if she doesn't obey the shift. This ship hit the quay hard enuff to pop the Scotchman which may well have caused the deckhand to lose his cool, but even so - there is little evidence that he knew how to drop a bollard hitch on the bits. He did have the wits not to get his hands caught. It's clear that he was aware of that danger. The chap who hopped aboard from dockside and did the job for him took an awful risk, IMO, but I'd love to have heard what manner of pure Dublin he woulda laid on the deck hand :-)!

In my instructing days I always impressed on people that you MUST be able to perform the basic repertoire of knots with one hand tied behind your back. In the dark. While being dragged under water! :-)

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Old 27-11-2019, 17:14   #43
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

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OK, this is going to be a non-sequitur because I haven't read the thread, but I like this pic and think it's relevant to the OP.



Now that's a proper Canadian (NFLD) wharf Mike!!
Has all the options you would ever need-decent sized bull rail,good hefty cleat , ladder rungs & staple. Len
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Old 27-11-2019, 17:30   #44
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Illustration of midship line for docking or departing SINGLE handed.
Midship line is semi permanently fastened to boat,bitter end taken to dock & returned & cleated to boat. Len




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Old 27-11-2019, 19:43   #45
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Re: How do you tie up to these cleats ?

Ah - the Mascot 28. Nice boat even if she IS short by a coupla feet ;-)! Actually she is better than TP in that she has an inside steering station, which TP lacks. Just now, here in the Straits of Georgia, it's cold enuff to make me wish for one. Where did you pick 'er up? I'm curious because she is so very Scowegian. There can't be many of them here in the Colonies?

As for your midships line - can I please continue to do it my way, please? Pretty please :-0)?

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