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Old 01-10-2018, 10:09   #31
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Just deserts; perhaps?
What’s that suppose to mean?

Remember folks,

I haven’t posted any of the many great experiences we’ve had over the years, just these two epic failures so it doesn’t happen to you.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:13   #32
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Ken, I am sorry to hear about your experiences this season.

Regarding your first two guests, one thing that struck me when reading your initial post was this paragraph:





Nowhere does this mention part of your goal was to have tasks and costs shared. Did you actually discuss this with your guests beforehand? Many people would assume that guests invited into your home (and by extension onto your boat as well if your aim is purely “to reconnect and see parts of the world together”) would not be subject to this, so perhaps this was simply a case of not communicating your expectations. On our boat I would not want let alone expect guests to be involved in watch keeping, so your expectations are not universal.

With friends the “contract” you mention may not be appropriate, but any information should be put in writing beforehand in, for example, an email, so that the situation is crystal clear. If you feel it is inappropriate to raise the issue of shared expenses, then just be prepared to happily bear the costs if your guests do not offer to contribute. Your generosity is very likely to be later reciprocated in some other manner.

SWL



He can speak for himself, I guess, but I think the legal and expense sharing part of this thread relates to volunteer crew.


Friends and family are a whole different ballgame.



I have had BOTH friends and volunteer crew on board at the same time, and it can be somewhat complex, but I certainly don't take expense shares from my friends. They will pitch in for something here or there where they feel like it, but when I invite friends on board, I am extending hospitality.


If you have issues with your friends over who pays for what at dinner, then you need different friends.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:21   #33
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Sounds as if you may have confused friends and acquaintances?
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:24   #34
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

People never cease to amaze me....

Luckily sometimes its is in the right direction. As far as your situation just chalk it up to experience. You are the one in the right and doing the right always pays off in the long run. Good luck and good fortune moving forward.

Foster
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:24   #35
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Well, golly: Unless the guests are actually chartering your boat and your services, I can't imagine their not participating in watch keeping while underway. I've always assumed that getting splashed with cold seawater at 0dark thirty was part of the charm. In return for the rest that this allows me to get, I'll feed 'em and pay their transportation to and/or from the boat.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:25   #36
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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I have had BOTH friends and volunteer crew on board at the same time, and it can be somewhat complex, but I certainly don't take expense shares from my friends. They will pitch in for something here or there where they feel like it, but when I invite friends on board, I am extending hospitality.
I get the impression that the 'friends' came in with the perspective of "we're helping him out, so he's obviously covering expenses" rather than "we're lucky that we were invited, so let's make sure we're invited again"...
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:33   #37
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

I’ve had charterers, friends and acquaintances on my boats, including non sailors in all categories. The answer it to let them know in advance—in writing—what is expected of them, both at sea and socially. Find out their sailing experience and what they expect, whether charterers want to participate, etc,. Tell them, when you dine out you pay for yourselves. Boat costs to be shared—or not, etc,.
It is even more important if you haven’t seen the people for many years.
The more you can find out, the better chance you have of an agreeable experience for everyone—including declining to have them at all, and we have declined paid charterers on the strength of dubious replies.
It seems to me that many of Kenomac’s problems could have been avoided by prior understandings. Although I don’t quite know how you find out in advance if a person is a registered sex offender.
A boat of any size is too small a place to have disagreeable companions.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:34   #38
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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If you have issues with your friends over who pays for what at dinner, then you need different friends.
I agree 100%. There’s no issues with other friends and guests.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:35   #39
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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People never cease to amaze me....

Luckily sometimes its is in the right direction. As far as your situation just chalk it up to experience. You are the one in the right and doing the right always pays off in the long run. Good luck and good fortune moving forward.

Foster
Thank you Foster.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:35   #40
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Quote:
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He can speak for himself, I guess, but I think the legal and expense sharing part of this thread relates to volunteer crew.


Friends and family are a whole different ballgame.



I have had BOTH friends and volunteer crew on board at the same time, and it can be somewhat complex, but I certainly don't take expense shares from my friends. They will pitch in for something here or there where they feel like it, but when I invite friends on board, I am extending hospitality.


If you have issues with your friends over who pays for what at dinner, then you need different friends.

Any guests we have had on board have always been extraordinarily generous, but few have offered to do the work of crew (with the exception of occasional help in the galley) and none have offered to specifically pay for items such as fuel, nor would I expect or wish this to occur.

I agree that volunteer crew are a completely different issue, but Ken described all three of his visitors as “friends” and “guests”, not “crew”. I think if he expected costs and work to be shared this should have been made very clear beforehand.

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Old 01-10-2018, 10:39   #41
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Ken,


Those people are not friends, they are "gimme friends.
We have disassociated ourselves from a few of those types over the years, and they were not necessarily boaters.


When I hear stories like this, I'm glad we have a small boat.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:40   #42
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Not sure what you could have done to avoid the sex offender guest but with respect to the first two, perhaps a clear understanding of the roles you expected them to assume and the financial contributions you expected them to make, including your disinterest in eating or paying for costly meals out. It seems like you had the best intentions going into this but were hesitant to really make sure there would be a good fit with these guests. Don't be discouraged, simply be more up front with your needs and expectations and make sure the intended guests agree to them.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:48   #43
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Sex offenders have the lowest rate of reoffending of all major crimes. That said, your acquaintance sounds like he has no intention of respecting laws or people. I just didn't think your comment about "never change" is reliable for all.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:48   #44
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew 2018... Next year will be better.

Well, I certainly hope so. You've reiterated why we do not have visitors, save fellow sailors of very well-known behaviours. You can't be expected to have known your "sickly" friend was an internationally known pervert, nor that you were going to have a cascade of gear trouble while detained.


But I would consider, were I you, writing up an explicit list of "What is Expected When You Visit Our Vessel" requirements, particularly in terms of sharing tasks/watches, sharing expenses (or not incurring them ashore) and so on, particularly if your friends have expensive tastes and you have expensive boat parts/fuel. No one comes aboard who does not agree to honour the list and pull their weight. And if they are not sailors, offer to coach or monitor them in every respect. Frankly, the first couple who were sailors should have internalized this etiquette, rather than act like greedy and lazy lubbers.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:48   #45
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

It shows that we need to know some background before we transport anyone across a border.
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