Help me decide which boat!

[maplemale]

Decisions decisions... forced into letting one boat go likely today/tomorrow. This is always what it comes down to in life eventually forced into option a or b. *sign*


Choice A: Cheoy Lee 44' (cutter) in TX that we can barely afford.
Choice B: Endeavor 40 in NC that we can easily afford.

Both cash deals. Both in nice shape... the E40 will be gone in the next 1-2 days. Both had major professional work done such as teak decks removed, fuel tanks replaced etc. Both appear well care for. Both are lacking some equipment (the E40 more so) such as liferaft, epirb, dingy, water maker, solar, wifi/4g antena, additional batteries (on the E40) etc all things we need. Both have nice standing / running rigging. This will be a live-aboard boat for a family of 5 (3 little kids, 1 still crawling) planning on East coast and Carrib.



We want the CL! But here's the things...

1. CL44 is in Texas and we have no desire to live-aboard / stay in Texas. Assuming it's also too late to plan a gulf crossing and hire a skipper to go with me (without the kids)?

2. The size of the boat we really want is just a lot more boat than we're used to. The 40' is more boat than we're used to (30' previously). But, 44' is a LOT more than we're used to. Our monthly budget allows maint. of both, but it's my personal skill I'm unsure about, especially in tight places and docking.

3. We like the E40, however my wife and I are young and like to actually sail as our experience builds. I know we'd be fine in the Carrib in the E40. But, what if we decided to hop the pond with a group of other boats? It's a slow, heavy boat that I'm told has issues to-weather (though it can take a beating). Where as the CL44 is kinda made for crossing oceans and would be hella more fun to sail.


All first world problems! No one can tell me definitively what to do of course. But, I've always received great advice here. So, let me see some good insight and straight out -- which would you do?

[SV Bacchus]

If you can barely afford a boat, it will bankrupt you. Go for the one you can easily afford and it will only "almost" bankrupt you.

I'm not kidding, the costs after taking ownership are astounding!

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by maplemale

Decisions decisions... forced into letting one boat go likely today/tomorrow. This is always what it comes down to in life eventually forced into option a or b. *sign*


Choice A: Cheoy Lee 44' (cutter) in TX that we can barely afford.
Choice B: Endeavor 40 in NC that we can easily afford.

Both cash deals. Both in nice shape... the E40 will be gone in the next 1-2 days. Both had major professional work done such as teak decks removed, fuel tanks replaced etc. Both appear well care for. Both are lacking some equipment (the E40 more so) such as liferaft, epirb, dingy, water maker, solar, wifi/4g antena, additional batteries (on the E40) etc all things we need. Both have nice standing / running rigging. This will be a live-aboard boat for a family of 5 (3 little kids, 1 still crawling) planning on East coast and Carrib.



We want the CL! But here's the things...

1. CL44 is in Texas and we have no desire to live-aboard / stay in Texas. Assuming it's also too late to plan a gulf crossing and hire a skipper to go with me (without the kids)?

2. The size of the boat we really want is just a lot more boat than we're used to. The 40' is more boat than we're used to (30' previously). But, 44' is a LOT more than we're used to. Our monthly budget allows maint. of both, but it's my personal skill I'm unsure about, especially in tight places and docking.

3. We like the E40, however my wife and I are young and like to actually sail as our experience builds. I know we'd be fine in the Carrib in the E40. But, what if we decided to hop the pond with a group of other boats? It's a slow, heavy boat that I'm told has issues to-weather (though it can take a beating). Where as the CL44 is kinda made for crossing oceans and would be hella more fun to sail.


All first world problems! No one can tell me definitively what to do of course. But, I've always received great advice here. So, let me see some good insight and straight out -- which would you do?

Howdy!
You did not mention the Asking Price of these boats, and that can make a difference.

You did not mention your Asking Price Limit (the most you want to spend), and that limits what others will suggest.

Since I don't know either of those numbers, I will suggest you consider looking at the following thread from this point forward. I recently posted several boats (including a few today) that are relatively low priced, may have considerable cruising gear aboard already, or may have features and a low enough price point that you could add the gear you want within your budget.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2588861
_______________

Also, remember that most sailors and cruisers do not cross oceans on their own boat. Most stick to coastal cruising and shorter distances. So, make sure you buy the boat you really need for the most sailing or location where you will be sailing.

By the way, I sailed from Hawaii to California on an Endeavour 37. It is not a fast boat, but it was comfortable and despite a storm I did not feel at great risk in it. Since most of these cruiser boats of that size will cruise at about 7 knots in a good wind, "high speed" or "fast" is really relative or a state of mind. YMMV

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by SV Bacchus

If you can barely afford a boat, it will bankrupt you. Go for the one you can easily afford and it will only "almost" bankrupt you.

I'm not kidding, the costs after taking ownership are astounding!

I could not agree more. Also, as far as sailing ability, the PHRF ratings of both boats are so close it makes no difference.

Get the one your wife likes.

[maplemale]

Thank you sandy stone, Steadman Uhlich and SV Bacchus for the replies!

I follow the boats less than $30k thread actually. I almost bought one from there a few months ago. On both of these particular boats, we are in process thru creative maneuvering. By that I mean, the one we have to decide on tonight I nagged, pestered and haggled the broker who was getting 40+ phone calls a day. He then, unlisted the boat and relisted 2 weeks later (cause he was sick of the calls on vacation) and due to my pestering, I'm the one he first contacted. The other boat in TX (CL44) is listed incorrectly... few find it and it's been that way for over a year - I haven't said anything about that to the broker. LOL


Our budget at the absolute highest which leaves us with only about $5k in emergency reserves is $50k. We could get more (money)... but it would be on a less than favorable line of credit/heloc deal or other less than intelligent ways such as pulling money out of our business for obligations we haven't fulfilled. That would then strap our cruising budget of around $3k per month (varies a bit seasonally / repairs on rentals). I know $36k is a tight yearly budget for a cruising family of 5. Though, we are living on that ashore just fine. We're tough folks.


We've spent the evening on the phone... and seeking advice. I think we're coming to the conclusion like Steadman Uhlich and SV Bacchus said that the boat we can barely afford the initial purchase on is going to make the entire experience miserable vs. having a decent emergency sailing kitty sitting aside while starting out. We'll see how this plays out... maybe we'll lose out on both boats. But, we're trying for the Endeavor.

[john61ct]

You can't actually afford either, unless you **know** you're coming into a lot of money soon, or that you can just sail the E40 as is no improvements while you're rebuilding your savings.

If your income is dropping a lot when you start sailing, just keep working and saving, or aim for a much cheaper starting point.

Have 6+ months realistic expenses in the bank at all times.

That will get mostly eaten in just one bad month at some point in the first year.

[maplemale]

Originally Posted by john61ct

You can't actually afford either, unless you **know** you're coming into a lot of money soon, or that you can just sail the E40 as is no improvements while you're rebuilding your savings.

If your income is dropping a lot when you start sailing, just keep working and saving, or aim for a much cheaper starting point.

Have 6+ months realistic expenses in the bank at all times.

That will get mostly eaten in just one bad month at some point in the first year.

6 months expense / emergency fund is a given and I have not included that in any of the information I shared, but rest assured we have that. When I state a "budget" of $50k, I'm talking about our 6 months of emergency fund (which I haven't mentioned) being completely separate and mostly untouchable.


Everyone's financial situation is a little different and ours has always been... well complicated. Not usually bad just complicated. It's hard for someone on a forum to get a complete picture without me submitting a 20 page document. And, keep in mind I've owned (though smaller and not a live-aboard) multiple boats. I'm aware of most costs, though another 10' is a big step up.


The wisdom I take from what you say though... "willing to sail as is". I think we are.

[SV Bacchus]

I think you are wise to consider comfortable cruising vs scrimping by cruising. You want to do this to enjoy, not worry every day about where your next meal is coming from.

[john61ct]

As long as it isn't the (overly "comfortable") cruising that threatens the food budget, not here but it does happen.

Between the two boats, most relevant equation is

Do the *necessary* after-purchase costs for the "cheaper" boat push the total cost anywhere near the one already better equipped and maintained?

That may make the latter a "better value" *if* you really can afford it.

But "if you need to ask", and both boats are actually ready to start sailing, and especially if income will be declining, then the cheaper boat's the way to go.

[maplemale]

Well... we offered last night. But we waited an hour too long. The Endeavor is gone. Only response from the broker was, I have multiple offers over asking and yours isn't the highest.


Asked if I could submit another offer... no reply to text/phone or email. LOL

[boatman61]

Personally I would go for the Cheoy Lee.. but its not my money and.. I've always be a gambler with boats.
Some I win.. some I lose..
But if I read it right it has more gear than the Endevour had so your ahead of the game in a sense.

[maplemale]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Personally I would go for the Cheoy Lee.. but its not my money and.. I've always be a gambler with boats.
Some I win.. some I lose..
But if I read it right it has more gear than the Endevour had so your ahead of the game in a sense.

So, now that the Endeavor is a definite no, we kinda let the owner know we're more serious about his CL44. We let him know that at the price-point gear and extra money to throw at outfitting is our biggest concern. Had a bit of a heart-to-heart... long story short, he's willing to throw in more gear than was listed. Such as current 6 man liferaft, dingy, epirb etc. Also, willing to spend time sailing with us and would go with us and even assist me / go on a gulf crossing.


Decisions, decisions. We've always liked the Robert Perry designs the most... Our biggest concern at this point is just the overall size and ongoing maint. cost. I want to remain mostly jobless and not worry about money. ie. comfortable cruising = not money strapped cruising. I'm a software engineer... i can get another job at anytime it becomes necessary. I just don't want one.

[DeadCiv]

Sorry to hear that. But remember not to get emotionally attached. There is ALWAYS another boat.

[maplemale]

Originally Posted by DeadCiv

Sorry to hear that. But remember not to get emotionally attached. There is ALWAYS another boat.

Such good advice! Same as a house.

[boatman61]

I'd not let the size worry you overmuch.. everything is done just the same, if anything its a tad easier because the boats heavier.
Just prepare ahead of time and do things slowly.. also, conservative sailing cuts down on maintenance a lot..
Don't bang out for everything on your list for a start.. see what you can live without.. anchor wherever possible and use your dink.. once you escape the marina traps of the USA that's the best way to go.. cooler.. fewer bugs.. clean water to swim in just outside the door..