Heeling!

[Lake-Effect]

Heeling is part of monohull sailing.

(There is also the saying that "gentlemen never sail to weather", but I'm not a gentleman)

It took my wife a few years to gain confidence, but now we can enjoy burying the rail of a chartered 41' boat.

With kids, the only things I can recommend are gaining experience gradually, including giving them some involvement and control... and sailing lessons. When they get comfortable with sailing a dinghy, the big boat will become ho-hum by comparison.


(another idea - work with the kids one-on-one. Go out with just one child, and an experienced adult friend or two to crew. Stand with the child at the helm, set a course, and start easy, and tell the child to ask for more sail when they're ready to go faster)


On our small sailboat, I almost always put newbies on the tiller right away. They learn pretty fast that you can ease the heel by heading up.

[s/v Jedi]

Seeing that any heel angle other than 0 degrees is a problem, a catamaran won’t fix that issue and will even add that bone jarring slamming and sideways jerking motion, making it much worse.

Seasickness is not caused by heel.

I recommend a motorhome

[LittleWing77]

Did a workshop with Nigel Calder, God of Diesel Engine Mechanics and boat maintenance in general, and he made a point of having had great success with these:

Liquid-Filled Motionsickness Glasses https://www.lincolnsquareretailer.co...g&currency=USD

*Note: apparently there are lots of manufacturers and he didn't mention a particular brand that I recall. (I don't get seasick and I have no interest in this product.)

Also remember, as a dodge, you can always drop your traveller and spill some wind from the mainsail to reduce both weather helm and heel (which also may mean you've got too much sail up). It's not good for the sail - because it will flog needlessly, but it might help with the kids' seasickness...

Good luck - this is surely a crummy position to be in.

LittleWing77

(And Jedi, as always, is right about catamarans as a potential solution (it won't be a solution - particularly in Finland!)

[thinwater]

Lots of good suggestions.


Get a smaller boat just for you and enjoy single handing. Not everything needs to be a family activity. And they'll probably come along some days. Maybe that's enough.

[Olorin]

I grew up sailing mono hulls and really enjoyed that for day sails.

However, as a live aboard cruiser crossing oceans, I didn't want to be heeled for long periods. So we have a 40' catamaran and the living is easy.

The motion is different although not as violent and some naysayers would lead you to believe.

Pick your delicious poison. `

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

We've had some issues with seasickness (that we're actively trying to resolve)...... "Will we raise the sails?" one of our kids frequently asks, with slight fear in her eyes. "Can we turn on the engine?" the other pleads, wanting our home to get "normal" again.

Ahh.......Nothing like "The Forced March of Fun!!"

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you're subjecting your family to your dream, at their expense (misery). Initially I would suggest a diesel trawler, but having owned one, they tend to roll, so I doubt that would solve the sea sickness issue.

It's tough to continue to engage in an activity that makes people sick, or that they don't also love. Have you considered an RV??

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Ahh.......Nothing like "The Forced March of Fun!!"

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you're subjecting your family to your dream, at their expense (misery). Initially I would suggest a diesel trawler, but having owned one, they tend to roll, so I doubt that would solve the sea sickness issue.

It's tough to continue to engage in an activity that makes people sick, or that they don't also love. Have you considered an RV??

Of course I am (or we are) subjecting the children to what we dream would be great for them (and us). That, to me, is generally how parenting works.

Sometimes everything goes well, sometimes there are struggles on the way. They love being ashore in the ”new destinations”, they seem to enjoy being at sea a lot— it’s just when the heeling and seasickness starts that things go sour.

They want a catamaran. I want to figure out whether we should stop doing this altogether.

And just to restate, this isn’t my dream _for myself_, it was always a dream about what would bring more understanding of life to the children and my wife.

A couple of years ago we were driving around in Sweden and Norway and staying at a lot of different Airbnbs. A couple of the kids had big problems with the amount of insects. Still, after the trip, they couldn’t stop talking about it as their best vacation ever.

It’s not not complicated

[rslifkin]

Seasickness isn't a yes or no thing for some people. I've got one friend that has to be very careful (always have something to do, don't look at stuff in the boat too much, stay on deck, etc.) on sailboats to avoid getting seasick between heeling and the slower rolling motion, etc. under sail. But put the same friend on a powerboat (or likely a cat) with a faster, sharper motion that some would find uncomfortable and the seasickness problem is gone.

It might be worth a charter or something to get the kids out on a different type of boat and see how they react.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Lots of good suggestions.


Get a smaller boat just for you and enjoy single handing. Not everything needs to be a family activity. And they'll probably come along some days. Maybe that's enough.

For me it feels more like that in the age of the ipad and long working hours, at least _something_ should be a family activity. It doesn’t have to be this one, of course. Let’s see!

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Seasickness isn't a yes or no thing for some people. I've got one friend that has to be very careful (always have something to do, don't look at stuff in the boat too much, stay on deck, etc.) on sailboats to avoid getting seasick between heeling and the slower rolling motion, etc. under sail. But put the same friend on a powerboat (or likely a cat) with a faster, sharper motion that some would find uncomfortable and the seasickness problem is gone.

It might be worth a charter or something to get the kids out on a different type of boat and see how they react.

Yes! I think the chartering idea is great.

[boatman61]

I have always suffered from seasickness however my time in the RN taught me how to manage it and over a few years standing my watch in the Sonar control I even managed to stop using the bucket I would take in with me.. the erections however were uncontrollable.. those 'Pings' seemed to hit a certain responder in my circuitry.
I still suffer queasiness the first couple of days on a trip but thats nothing to do with heeling.
'Tippy Tippy' as one long term partner called it is hated by the less than dedicated.. even after a few years cruising the Atlantic and Med you would see her tensing up as the heel passed 5 degrees, by 10 degrees she would start white knuckling.. You'll not cure it.. and its a lousy way to have to live.
Charter a Cat for a week or two and see how they like it is your best bet for the all inclusive dream.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Yes, it would indeed be nice to experience a heavier monohull! If there ever is a 'next boat', I'd like one that sails well in really light winds, however, so that's might be a problem for the heavy boat. Unless you have a good light wind sails

I don't agree with the previous poster that heeling is determined by displacement. It's not. It's determined by hull form. Your boat should heel much less than older designs, and if it doesn't, then likely you have some sail trim problem.

Do you have a way to measure heel angle and rudder angle? Your instruments ( in the worst case, the pilot head) should give you rudder angle for sure. If you can't get heel angle from then, then you can buy a €20 mechanical inclinometer. You need this data to sail properly.

In moderate conditions, your boat should not heel more than 10 degrees (and less with the wind abaft the beam). Rudder angle should not exceed 5 or 6 degrees, maybe slightly more hard on the wind. If you are exceeding these parameters, then you either have too much sail up, or the sails are overtrimmed. Pay particular attention to the traveler, which should be all the way down once you are much off the wind, and beyond that you should some vang on and get the boom out to the proper angle. As someone above posted, overtrimmed maiinsail on a reach is a VERY common problem, and this will cause abnormal heeling and excessive weather helm, the latter of which will show itself in your rudder angle.

In stronger conditions, heel might go up to 15 degrees and rudder angle might touch 10, but if you can't keep those parameters under those values then you've either got trim problems or too much sail up. My boats absolute limit is 20 degrees of heel but I have narrower after sections than you. I believe on your boat 15 degrees will be at or near the limit.

Once you get that sorted, see how your family likes sailing. If they can't get used to the proper amount of heel, then you need a catamaran. Heeling is an inherent disadvantage of monos and perfectly reasonable reason to go to a cat. Note well, however, that although a cat will solve heeling, it might not improve sea sickness. On the contrary, cats have a twitchier motion that many sailors find MORE seasick-inducing than the motion of a mono. YMMV.

[Cheechako]

A cat will make a huge difference. There will be a bit of jerky motion, but it's not a big deal. Not for everyone, but for a bigger boat with kids etc, they are a great cruising platform, roomy, offer privacy etc. They carry weight better than a mono from my personal experience, even though people say to not overload it for performance. My 42 ft cat was faster than my 47 foot mono, had the exact same stuff on board, and only went down 1.5+ inches with the load where the 47 mono was down 5"! Mono's heel. That's the way it is. Mono's when motoring roll around unless you put the main up. That can be the worst for seasickness.
I'm not sure you can blame seasickness on heeling, but on rolling etc yes. But there is a mental aspect to seasickness, and if people dont like heeling....

[SailSB]

It sounds to me like the real problem is the sea sickness.

I am a long term monohull sailor who has a catamaran for live aboard cruising. I am also prone to get sea sick.

I find the motion underway of a cat in even marginally rough seas is more likely to make me queasy than any amount of heel on a monohull. For me it is not the heel that induces sickness, but the wallowing on a monohull. On a cat, the motion to me is unpredictable and jerky, which sets me off even quicker than on a mono.

With that said, pending your goals, there is no comparison between the two at anchor, hence why I own a Cat.

Get the sea sickness under control, most likely with meds, but keeping their minds occupied is also very important. Explain the physics of why the mono can't tip over due to wind. Have them drive the boat. If they still don't enjoy it, charter a cat and sail it. If they still have a problem, it sounds like a different family hobby might be in order.

[BugzyCan]

Getting my sea legs is what stopped that queasy feeling for me, and watching the horizon. Have the kids stand on the boat and practice it until it becomes muscle memory, then they will never be seasick again. It then becomes fun when the waves are pushing the boat around, and they just compensate without thinking about it.