Heaving to- Fore reaching- Lying Ahull

[thataway41]

I have been in a number of gales, and a few full storms. For the most part I kept on sailing, with reefs in the main and various storm jibs. (But many of those times were on racing boats with full crews.)

The worse was on a North Atlantic crossing with just the two of us aboard. We had 3 days of winds with the anemometer pegged at 60 knots, with seas documented to be 40 to 45 feet and breaking. We kept the engine ticking over to keep water flow past the rudder, and a storm staysail jib, the auto pilot (oversized hydraulic old Benmar) steered the boat down wind quartering the waves and averaged about 6 knots in our general intended direction. We did have waves sweep the deck and at least once put the lower spreaders in the water. The sizing wire broke and although the spreaders were captive with SS bands over the ends, I had put get lines over them to pull down tight in usual position. The biggest problem was water thru the companion way(thru the wash boards). Sleeping was difficult, as was eating anything but dry rations and an occasional mug of soup.

The boat was ketch rig 62' LOA, 48' LWL and about 65,000# displacement with a full keel and attached rudder. Although I had raced fin keel boats for years, I was glad to picked a heavy full keel boat in those conditions. Damage included the spreader wire lashings to the shrouds, the grating on the top of the bow sprit was badly damaged, and a couple of life line stanchions were bent. The heavy storm staysail survived well. The large roller furling Genoa was not damaged, but we had rolled it tight, plus put ties abound the lower parts. We had a storm trysail, with separate track, but did not see the reason to deploy it.

We had what would be similar to a derecho or line squall on the River Elbe in Germany. We saw the clouds and my son got the main down and furled with ties. I was cranking in the 1200 sq foot Genoa as the wind was starting to build. By the time I ran out of the furling line on the ProFurl, there was still several feet of the leach of the Genoa out as the pressure from the wind rolled the sail tighter than ever before. That was shredded. We had to cut pieces of the cloth to free it later and bring it to the deck for repair. I was able to find a buoy at the side of the channel, and kept the stern of the boat near it for a visual reference in very limited visibility. (Before the days of GPS) As the storm cleared a number of merchant ships and barges were blown aground out of the channel. As we got to the yacht club near the Elbe's mouth, we found that several vessels were heading to sea were caught with sails up and had all sails destroyed by the force of the wind. Windows had been broken and much damage on buildings ashore.

[SteveSadler]

There are many books written on the subject, Fatty Goodlanders being far more useful than most. I've always been amazed at the numbers of boats destroyed by hurricanes that could have sailed 50 to 100 miles to another anchorage untouched by the storm, yet accept the fate of a direct hit in their current one. Cyclone paths are well predicted, plans can be made well in advance, mass destruction easily avoided.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by lituya1617

My rules for storms: 1. Avoid storms if at all possible. 2. Run for weakest quadrant if you are caught out. 3. Do not run with the wind and into a strong current because these conditions push up very steep breaking swells that will repeatedly poop the boat and might batter open a hatch. 4. When worsening conditions threaten safety and vessel, toss out the drogue and button up the ship. 5. If there's insufficient sea room directly downwind, try to angle the course to avoid shoals. 6. If shoals cannot be avoided with the drogue deployed, use the engine to maintain a safe course. 7. A storm sail (>10 ounce cloth and specially reinforced) may make hull motion easier but only use one below force 8 winds - after which storm sails represent a threat to the rigging if they catch a breaking wave. 8. Strap in and hang on. 9. Always be ready to deal with being rolled, demasted, or pitch poled by rogue waves. 10. Never abandon a ship that is floating well and off shore, no matter its condition. Your lifeboat must be ready at all times and stocked with what is essential to reach shore. 11. If caught in a storm, always establish radio contact with the coast guard and give your position and a time certain to check back in to verify you are still afloat. Carry an EPIRB. 12. Be calm, move carefully, and pray. When all else fails, use your brain.

Use your brain! - yes, good advice even before all else fails

A typical storm sail should be easily able to take Force 8 - that's maximum of 40 knots (according to W'pedia - I can never remember those numbers).

Your point about the sail catching a wave is most important. The storm sail must always have a high cut, but wind strength should not be a problem up to 50 knots or so if the sail is sized right.

[hpeer]

Another question along these same lines.

Aft cockpit or center cockpit?

And what about those cockpits that fold down? I tend to see these as a liability.

Or those that have no transom board and are straight open to the sea? I guess they will shed water fast but must make helming off just sitting in the cockpit exciting.

Our 44 has a smallish center cockpit, 2 each 3” diameter drains straight to the water. The bridge deck is as high as the cockpit seats, and they are abnormally high. We have a lot of above waterline flotation capacity as our (Small) transom extends out over the waterline a couple of feet. I feel, but do not know, that this is a Good setup to avoid being pooped.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Another question along these same lines.

Aft cockpit or center cockpit?

And what about those cockpits that fold down? I tend to see these as a liability.

Or those that have no transom board and are straight open to the sea? I guess they will shed water fast but must make helming off just sitting in the cockpit exciting.

Our 44 has a smallish center cockpit, 2 each 3” diameter drains straight to the water. The bridge deck is as high as the cockpit seats, and they are abnormally high. We have a lot of above waterline flotation capacity as our (Small) transom extends out over the waterline a couple of feet. I feel, but do not know, that this is a Good setup to avoid being pooped.

A center cockpit should definitely be fairly safe from collecting a lot of water in a pooping scenario. You may still get pooped, but it's more likely to be just a dump of water on top of the aft cabin with some going into the cockpit rather than a lot going into the cockpit like an aft cockpit would get. However, depending on how quickly the cockpit can drain and how well it keeps water from getting into places it doesn't belong, getting pooped in an aft cockpit isn't necessarily catastrophic.

[LifePart2]

I am surprised that no one has yet mentioned Victor Shane's Drag Device Database alongside the previously mentioned Pardey's Strom Tactics and Adlard Coles' Heavy Weather Sailing.

To my mind all three of these should be required reading before heading out anywhere that might expose you to such conditions.

For those that do not know of it, the Drag Device DB (which can be read online for free at http://dragdevicedb.com, consists of aover 100 first hand accounts of surviving storms in all types of boat. It is fascinating reading and certainly provokes thought as to what might work for your own particular type of boat.

As for running under bare poles in any kind of waves I would certainly want to have a drogue out. As has been said above, it is easy to get pushed around by a wave and end up beam-to - not a good idea. A drogue will help prevent that and will also pull you around back to a downwind posture in quick time.

In 11 years of cruising with two atlantic crossings I have not yet had to weather even a proper gale (except for some short lived squalls), so to me it is all still theory (and I hope it stays that way. But still, it is good to think things through.

[Kaimana]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

I didn't wanna hijack another active thread on whether to stay in port or go to sea in extreme weather........

What you SHOULD do depends entirely on your boat, your skill level, your confidence level, and most important, IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU ARE DOING!

Most of the advice here leaves those factors out. And they are the MOST important factors; listen to the guy in the 22-footer in this thread that survived a Bay of Biscay blow that sank 3 much bigger fishing boats. 1. He had a good boat. 2. He had high skill and confidence levels. 3. He knew what he was doing. And he and his little corky boat survived!

If ALL of those are LOW in you, your best bet is to drive the sucker up on the beach at high tide before the storm hit, as far sidewind from any other anchored boats as you can (so when they blow down onto the beach they don't crush your boat).

Then either stay in the boat (you won't drown, and it's some protection from flying projectiles (which is what kills most people in a hurricane), or find a nice concrete blockhouse somewhere above high water mark that you can shelter in.

Driving your boat up on the hard VOLUNTARILY before the hurricane hits can also be a good idea because it avoids having someone else in the anchorage drag into you, and hole and sink your boat while on your perfectly secure mooring, that wouldn't have dragged in the storm. Now you're sunk. In 40 feet of water.

This happened to a friend's boat, a nice 42-footer, when an older power cruiser (with no insurance) dragged into his boat. He was lucky because his insurance covered his total loss. But he was on-island, drove down to the harbor to check on his boat from shore, thought everything looked OK, and went home. The powerboat started to drag about an hour later, and sank his boat about three hours later.

I'd rather "sink" my boat on the beach.



I had a good boat, I was experienced, I was confident, and I knew what I was doing when I took three friends out "daysailing" in my 37-footer in what the local USCG station described as "45 knots with gusts to 55, seas 18 to 25 feet", and beat upwind for an hour and a half before turning and running back downwind to the harbor.

I knew we were "just inside" the boat's performance and safety envelope, but the forecast was not for a storm getting worse, but for the winds easing off later that night. We also had plenty of sea-room to run offshore and South if we'd needed to, and if you have room to run, all of a sudden the spare space in your boat's safety envelope gets a LOT bigger! So going out sailing on this day was a reasoned, calculated decision that left lots of safety room for things to change.

My friends had asked to go out on this sail because each one was building one of the same 37-foot Searunner trimarans that I had, and "wanted to see how the boat handled in heavy weather". After this sail, one sold his boat, another abandoned the building project. Sorry, but it's real out there, and if you're OUT THERE when it comes up, you just gotta deal with it.

I had the same good boat, was experienced and confident and knew what I was doing when I sailed north from Ventura Harbor in southern California, headed for San Francisco around Point Concepcion (they call it "Cape Horn of the Pacific").

This time the local USCG station described the weather as "50 to 55 knots and gusting, with seas 25 to 35 feet". We only had the 9-oz staysail up, but we still pegged the 20-knot Sumlog for ten minutes at a time, surfing up the backs of the growlers in front of us until the wave behind caught up. We made around 250 miles north in the next 15 hours, then the wind quit when we were just off Pescadero Beach.

There's more to that story, but, my point is: check your experience, check your boat, check your options, then do the SAFEST THING!

You can always pull your boat off the beach and fix it up. You can always get another boat. You can't get another you. And imagine how you'd feel if a wife, son, or daughter had to pay the price for your poor judgement and risk taking.

With Warm Aloha, Tim

[Dave Isom]

G’day, this is a topic I’ve given much thought to and have had some.....experience so here’s my two bob’s worth. 1. “Lying a-hull” is not to be recommended in extreme conditions as you’re more likely to eventually get rolled.2.” Running with it “is only safe up to a point. That point is where the seas are so large and steep that coming down a wave you will eventually pitch pole. This is why a number of boats foundered in the 1998 Sydney to Hobart in Bass Strait during extreme conditions. There were other reasons for other losses of course, one of which was falling off a wave, the planks opening up, mast going through the hull,where boat and most crew perished.3. The boats that did survive some did best quarter reaching INTO the seas then sliding down the backs at a slight angle. This takes skilled steering and is exhausting but can be done with an experienced crew...eg “ Coco” an S&S 34 survived this way using a small strong headsail ( storm jib?) 4. “ Heaving to” is an essential technique but generally only safe up to about 50 knots. 5.”The slick “mentioned which flattens the sea can realistically only happen in really big seas if you have deployed a parachute anchor. In extreme conditions this is probably your best option IMHO. Lin and the late Larry Pardy employed a small one numerous times with great success using a bridle to keep the boat at an angle and allow the boat to drift slowly back/sideways which allows a slick to develop where the sea is broken before it hits your boat. I have a quite large “ Pacific” para anchor which I haven’t deployed in anger but only in 45 knots in a large lake to test. My 40 foot ,14 tonne steel boat rolled a lot but was safe and at sea I would try to set a bridle.“ Parachute anchors”differ from “sea anchors “ and the former MUST be deployed from the bow. The latter is usually a smaller device and is usually deployed off the stern. A parachute anchor is ideal for a multihull where a bridle can be set as a yoke off both hulls.6. Jordan style drogues are streamed off the stern and will slow you down but may allow you to get pooped. I know multiple circumnavigators who rely on them ( Jeanne Socrates) has often used hers but I don’t believe it’s been in cyclonic conditions. Jon Sanders ( 11 circs) only ever heaves to using a heavily reefed main. In my circumnavigation I only needed to heave-to rarely. Mostly , as cruisers we just sail when the season is right and religiously try to avoid tropical revolving storms. There is no one definitive answer to which technique is the best for the conditions,the boat and crew. Each situation must be assessed and acted on accordingly. Extreme conditions can MOSTLY be avoided but it’s essential that you are prepared and know what is needed to be done and endeavour to do it BEFORE conditions become so bad that you are incapable of taking action.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

There are many books written on the subject, Fatty Goodlanders being far more useful than most. I've always been amazed at the numbers of boats destroyed by hurricanes that could have sailed 50 to 100 miles to another anchorage untouched by the storm, yet accept the fate of a direct hit in their current one. Cyclone paths are well predicted, plans can be made well in advance, mass destruction easily avoided.

Steve,


Maybe this is when you think that there is anybody who takes care of the boats ? But many caretakers are not allowed to move a boat and many others do not have the skills.


E.g. off season charter companies do not have that many skippers at hand. They can move some boats, say 5 or 10% of their fleet.



When you look at the huge damages to fleets - you are looking at:


- charter fleets, off-charter season, boats were anchored out waiting for next season,
- cruising boats where owners flew home, most cruisers fly home in the off season.


Then a hurricane arrives and then you get those impressive images.


Where owners are onboard, in fact most will either run into mangroves, and many will run to mangroves ... on another island ... if a bad one is scheduled for their default anchorage.


Images are taken to sell. You always point your lens towards the most damaged area. But this gives false idea of how many people actually DO take avoiding action.


Cheers,
barnakiel

[barnakiel]

Driving the boat onto a sandy beach very nice solution. Mind cannot be employed in the Eastern Caribbean.


b.

[Saleen411]

I just watched a Pacific Rescue show on the Queen's Birthday Storm.

Some of the video and pictures were REALLY something.....MOUNTAINOUS seas.

Unfortunately a lot of the footage of the boats was AFTER they had been pitch poled and/or rolled and were missing their rigging.

I didn't learn much about storm tactics.....one boat said they were dragging a drogue. Winds were in excess of 80 knots at times.

Given the choice of attempting an escape to the west, the other suggestion on the radio was to "hove to".

So here we go again with this heaving to business in 80 knot winds.

In a monohull....at what wind speed do you NOT have any canvas up except for maybe a storm sail? 50 knots? 60? 70? 80?....

I say that there is NO possible way to heave to in conditions like the Queen's Birthday Storm.

Tell me I'm wrong... I dare ya.

[Saleen411]

AHA!. Found a bit of info on tactics used during the Queen's Birthday Storm.....


HEAVY WEATHER TACTICS

Most boats carry at least some heavy weather gear, though fortunately for most of us, opportunities to try it out in earnest are rare. In the June storm, strategies can be broadly divided into two depending on whether the boat concerned was in the ‘navigable’ or ‘dangerous’ semicircle of the weather system. (in this case to the south west or north east)
In the navigable section, the crew of ‘St.Leger’ decided to run down wind with little or no sail. The boat’s speed was reduced by trailing a 48″ Gale Rider drogue astern. To optimise the length of the tether line needed adjusting to suit the wave patter n. Eventually 48′ seemed about right and with wind vane steering little attention was needed over a 60 hour period with winds gusting to 60 knots..
As the majority of boats were in the dangerous semicircle, the technique of running with wind and seas astern was less appropriate. Such a course would take them in the direction in which the system was moving and possibly closer to its centre. Instead many opted to heave to or to take all sail down and lie ahull under bare poles.



The EILEAN, a 53′ ketch of 40 tons displacement, experienced difficulties in heaving to as their hydraulic steering system made it impossible to lock the rudder position. The problem was partially solved by using the electric autopilot to maintain hydraulic pressure. This in turn meant running the engine to keep batteries toped up, but by driving ahead slowly, slight progress was made to windward. Heavy seas regularly broke on deck – one smashing an armoured glass window, though a thick polycarbonate storm board prevented serious leakage.




In a similar position, the smaller Swiss Cutter ELENA, crewed by Guido and Yvonne Borsani, was also hove to, at first under triple reefed main and staysail. As conditions worsened
this was progressively reduced to main plus storm jib, storm jib only, then bare poles. With the tiller turned to windward and the wind at about 75 off the bow, for most of the time the boat seemed to ride the conditions well, but an incident occurred which that brought home to the Borsanis the danger of their situation. Heeled hard to leeward near the top of a wave, the boat was once struck amidships by a heavy breaking crest. It was simultaneously pitched into a windless trough and violently heeled in the opposite direction. (see Fig 2) Technically this was probably not a ‘knock down’ and its effects, though not disastrous certainly gave cause for serious concern. Yvonne, lying in the leeward bunk, had been hurled some 2 metres across the main cabin, miraculously suffering only severe bruising. The engine was out of service, as water had been forced through the siphon breaker, water trap and had filled one or more cylinders. On deck, all standing rigging had become mysteriously slack, though nothing appeared to have broken.
To reduce the risk of a repeat performance Guido adopted the unconventional tactic of trailing a head sail in the sea as a side drogue. A car tyre lashed to the peak acted as a light sinker, the tack was secured to the bow and the clew lashed amidships. In such strong winds, deploying (and retrieving) the arrangement was no easy task, but once set it helped slowed their sideways drift and more important, it appeared to absorb some energy from breaking seas.

[barnakiel]

I think in Queens Birthday storm one of the factors was cruisers hell bent on getting to X (I believe it was Fiji, for most, perhaps Tonga for others).


"Because if you go to New Cal, you will later have a lot of upwind work later". Well, just in this case, for many there was no 'later'.


Clearly, they had the option of running West but few took it. Most resolved to stay put, sit it out, lay hove to or ahull.



I have expressed my opinion on remaining hove to, in small craft, once some of the waves begin to break. In the sea between NZ and Tonga / Fiji many waves break. Look at the current loops there, you understand why.


I think being in touch with an onshore station added another element of risk, creating some kind of herd attitude. If they all had made their own decisions, probably many would have looked at the conditions and say what the hell, be it New Cal, but be it safe.


The sea does not like people who stick to schedules, timelines and fixed destinations. The sea likes to dictate its own schedule, making us accept the destinations that at times may take us way away from our planned cruising grounds.

Etc.


A bad event, tragic, with many factors leading to it. Too bad it happened and let's hope we can draw some kind of lesson that will help us at a point.


b.

[john manning]

I currently own and sail a catamaran. A Prout Escale. I hove to regularly and have done this once in storm conditions (not hurricane). I have described that as "like turning the weather off". The seas were over 20ft. The sails did cope but the wind was 40Kts gusting to high 40's.

I have also had to sail for a short time (about 90min) to seek shelter from 60Kt winds. Those were katabatic winds on the east coast of the South Island of NZ. When in the Cook Strait you only get 15 - 20 minutes warning of their approach. My double reefed main and staysail jib handled those winds easily.

I have been on my yacht with 70Kts gusting to 95Kts over the deck. I was in my marina in Wellington NZ. Leaving the yacht to walk down the pier did not look safe. Being on deck was like having someone constantly hitting you with a a sack full of paper. That taught me I must set up the yacht before the strong winds reach it if ever facing a serious storm. I would use a trisail only in winds above 70Kts.

A previous owner of my yacht reported sitting out a hurricane in the Caribbean, at sea, lying ahull. He was trying to sell the yacht at the time.

If you are a cruiser I would advise the only sensible tactic for a hurricane is to sit under a tree. (Pot plants on board do not count). I have considered buying a drogue but put the money into systems to give me better weather reports instead. Cyclone forecasting in the South West Pacific has become very reliable, you get 5 - 7 days notice of a potential cyclone. Enough time to get out of the way.

As a catamaran sailor I would never run before the wind in large seas. Catamarans seldom if ever capsize, BUT THEY DO PITCHPOLE. Pitchpoling is caused by sailing faster than the wave fronts and burying your bow into the wave in front of you.

[BBill]

I was crew on a 500' freighter (SS Steel Scientist) in the late 1960s and we skirted a cat 2 hurricane in route from NY to New Orleans to Vietnam. The waves were so high and crests so far apart the troughs WERE smooth in hurricane force winds.The crests were breaking so large and thick it would have made it impossible for any 60' yacht to survive, much less be controlled or stay on her feet. It's already been said, if you haven't experienced these conditions its all theory...but nobody in their right mind would take a 60' yacht offshore into a hurricane or any storm close to one for safety.

Yachting Mag had an article in the 1960s about Rudy Choy sailing one of his 40' cats across the ocean and getting caught in severe conditions. It was the Krispy Kreme boat and identified with KK on the sails. They surfed downwind and were able to control the boat in severe conditions. This is a good read if anyone can find it. It was in the early days of cats when few knew anything about multihulls in storm conditions.