Has anyone been following Greta and Boris Herrmmann?

[boatman61]

I often wonder how many of the 'Deniers' have shares in the fossil related industries boosting their resources.
You notice in the Brexit fiasco its the Remoaners who are instigating rioting and challenging the Democratic will.
Villa's in France and backhanders along with job promises can make a big difference.. The Blair Factor.

[jmorrison146]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

I wonder how many barrels of oil were needed to be refined into the plastics that were used to form my boat hull. How many are needed for each set of synthetic sails? (Anyone here sail with canvas?).
While I enjoy the piece (sic) and quiet of sailing, I am under no illusion that my recreational boating lifestyle is doing anything at all to decrease my carbon footprint.

Carbon fiber hull, keel, rudder, and spars, all bonded with epoxies and cured in some of the largest electric autoclaves in the world.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I often wonder how many of the 'Deniers' have shares in the fossil related industries boosting their resources.
You notice in the Brexit fiasco its the Remoaners who are instigating rioting and challenging the Democratic will.
Villa's in France and backhanders along with job promises can make a big difference.. The Blair Factor.

It may depend on how "denier" gets defined. It's convenient nomenclature for partisans since it falsely puts everyone into two groups. But the reality is that most if not all of the leading CC skeptics (actual scientists that is) are convinced human emissions are playing a role but are not convinced how consequential it actually is. Their positions differ greatly, so what exactly is being "denied"?

But your point about people mostly acting in their own self-interest -- despite claims they are acting on behalf of the common good -- is well taken. It's just the nature of humankind. But then so is the need to look for "saviors."

[TrentePieds]

Prompted by Svenskflicka's ("Swedish girl" for you Americans) comment about the position of Greta Thunberg's mother in the political mosaic of Sweden, I looker 'er up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malena_Ernman

I am confirmed in my opinion that's it luvverly to have money and influence. Does wonders for sons and daughters. Years ago, when I was still Scowegian, I formulated the dictum that "Money isn't everything, but it's sure as little apples a long, LONG way ahead of whatever it is that's in second place!"

I confess to being. like most Scowegians, a bit of a tree-hugger meself. But using kiddies as political instrumentalities, as Ernman appears to be doing (tho', in fairness, she herself may be an instrumentality), is not something I recall from my youth in that benighted part of the world. I suspect someone there accidentally let down the BS-shields and cultural diffusion ran rampant.

Still, just for nostalgias sake, I'll gladly take Greta and her Mum sailing around the various Swedish settlement on this coast. Might even teach Greta how to sail the boat :-)

TrentePieds

[jmorrison146]

Here's another point of view:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=qpSQuc69R9c

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by jmorrison146

Carbon fiber hull, keel, rudder, and spars, all bonded with epoxies and cured in some of the largest electric autoclaves in the world.

You do realize that epoxy resin is petroleum based.

[kenbo]

Whether you agree with the message Greta is delivering or not does not minimize the feeling that this trip is a publicity stunt.

If Greta and her family were as carbon footprint sensitive as they want to portray, their argument would have been better made if they remained home and delivered her speech digitally to the UN. All of the side discussions of politics and carbon footprint would then be muted.

[Don C L]

For children and the innocent youth of the world, there is a lot of bad news about the future, and really, it is bad news they can see with their own eyes in most parts of the world. (And I'm not just talking about climate.) They are not all necessarily being manipulated by media. Kids know they are facing the consequences but have very little power or control of the future. To say she is being exploited dismisses her own opinion and desires and relegates her to nothing more than a pawn. That kind of thinking dismisses all young people and their desires for a secure future by asserting they are too young to understand the way the world works. Many young people understand very, very well how the world works. If she and her mom are being self-serving by drawing attention to something they consider important, at least it is a type of self-service that has a chance to benefit us all. They all went on a really nice sailing trip and would like us to think about the planet. If we don't like the media coverage they are getting, we are free to change the channel.
I for one believe that the kids need a voice and need the respect of being heard, even if I may suspect they may be influenced by their parents or used by media. I mean really, how else are they going to get attention? A digital message to the UN would use less carbon, but who would pay attention to that?(Would Malala have become known if media had not "used" her?) And if they are out there sailing, all the better!
Sorry if this sounds political. To bring it back around, sounds like they had a really nice, fun 2 weeks at sea.

[kenbo]

Don,

Her message and her right to be heard are not what I was referring to, but rather the way it is being delivered. Notice how much discussion is being offered on the relative carbon footprint of sailing vs. flying and the logistics of the trip.

I was simply stating that her message would have fewer distractions if she remained home and delivered her speech to the UN digitally. She could have put a fine point on it by stating that transatlantic travel would have been too much of an ecological negative and counter productive to the goal she is pursuing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Don C L

For children and the innocent youth of the world, there is a lot of bad news about the future, and really, it is bad news they can see with their own eyes in most parts of the world. They are not all necessarily being manipulated by media. Kids know they are facing the consequences but have very little power or control of the future. To say she is being exploited dismisses her own opinion and desires and relegates her to nothing more than a pawn. That kind of thinking dismisses all young people and their desires for a secure future by asserting they are too young to understand the way the world works. Many young people understand very, very well how the world works. If she and her mom are being self-serving by drawing attention to something they consider important, at least it is a type of self-service that has a chance to benefit us all. They all went on a really nice sailing trip and would like us to think about the planet. If we don't like the media coverage they are getting, we are free to change the channel.
I for one believe that the kids need a voice and need the respect of being heard, even if I may suspect they may be influenced by their parents. And if they are out there sailing, all the better!
Sorry if this sounds political. To bring it back around, sounds like they had a really nice, fun 2 weeks at sea.

Yup.. Adults are not as smart as they like to think quite often, anyone who says they know best is flawed straight away, they have developed the tunnel vision that is slowly programmed into people over time.
Teenagers and twenty somethings still retain much of that wide view wonder of youth and can see flaws older folks often miss in their fixedness.
I know my parents only saw their vision whilst I saw the reality..
I was living it.

[Don C L]

Ken, I agree, but the public discussion and awareness is what they are working for; publicity is necessary, it's the only currency they have. If Greta had sat with a sign on a street corner she would be able to claim almost no carbon, and there would be no distractions, but we would not be here discussing it. Just about anything she does beyond the street corner will be vulnerable to the charge of hypocrisy when it comes to carbon footprint, but methinks sailing is a good way to make a point, even if it was on such a high tech boat. I would say though that it would have been much better if she had used my boat and showed how good old boats can be recycled!

[cabo_sailor]

I don’t really know how this entire thread has anything to do with cruising. There are certainly a bunch of political posts. It boggles the mind to consider how many folk think they can change someone’s mind in regard to politics, religion, etc.. with an anonymous post or three. More discouraging is to view how much hatred is so thinly veiled. [emoji22]
Well have fun I’ll not say any more or else I’d be as guilty.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

I wonder how many barrels of oil were needed to be refined into the plastics that were used to form my boat hull. How many are needed for each set of synthetic sails? (Anyone here sail with canvas?).
While I enjoy the piece (sic) and quiet of sailing, I am under no illusion that my recreational boating lifestyle is doing anything at all to decrease my carbon footprint.

The materials in your sails and hull do not emit CO2 until you set them on fire. The manufacturing process for those may emit CO2.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The materials in your sails and hull do not emit CO2 until you set them on fire. The manufacturing process for those may emit CO2.

Exactly. I was about to mention this.

Building a boat, at least putting the materials together and epoxying, is a form of carbon sequestration

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Exactly. I was about to mention this.

Building a boat, at least putting the materials together and epoxying, is a form of carbon sequestration

Have you ever been in a boat/fiberglass manufacturing facility? One of the prime movers for boat manufacturing leaving California was their inability to economically capture the off-gassing styrene and other solvents.