Grounding Repair

[Ljbuckers]

Hey Everyone

After seemingly years of searching I have found a vessel that I would like to proceed with and have been told this by the Broker:

"There was a grounding last spring which was repaired. The repair included removing the keel and mast. A full keel gird repair all completed under the supervision of a NAMS Certified Surveyor."

I understand and would absolutely require a survey/mechanical etc. However, I can not find much information on the full keel gird (I'm guessing grid) repair and what it entails.

Interested to hear the thoughts of people way more proficient and experienced than I.

[NYSail]

What keep me from of boat..... if it was fixed right could
Be good, an excellent surveyor that knows sailboats would be required at the minimum. Remember there are many boats out there..... something
Like this could turn out to be a nightmare.

Good luck

[manitu]

What hull construction?


Solid GRP vs sandwich makes a helluva difference here.
I would ask for pictures from before the repair.


.manitu

[Dsanduril]

Many boats are built with a grid rather than traditional frames. There are lots of different styles of grids, here's one from another thread:



The grids (if fiberglass/composite - they can be steel, or aluminum, or...) are usually built separately from the hull and then glued (or tabbed with fiberglass) into the hull. A hard grounding has been know to break that glue joint, seriously weakening the entire boat. The repair is generally to glue/tab it all back down. Depending on the amount of damage that can be easy/hard/nearly impossible.

[Groupah]

Try this thread for a scary intro to repair:
Keel sump repair - Fix It Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

[Ljbuckers]

It's a Beneteau 40.7, 2001.

Interesting and scary reading. Thanks.....I think!

[Ljbuckers]

Originally Posted by Groupah

Try this thread for a scary intro to repair:
Keel sump repair - Fix It Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Fascinating story and thanks for sharing all the information and photographs, it's making me want to curl up into a ball and not buy anything!!

[CarlF]

A boat that was professionally repaired under supervision by an insurance company adjuster, then passed survey, and then was insured after the repair by the same insurance company -- is a very good bet. Almost certainly stronger than when new.

I would talk to the insurance company and ask if they would again insure the boat if you bought it.

[Ljbuckers]

Beneteau 40.7 Keep Repair Summary‐
The vessel suffered significant damage as a result of grounding, and was subsequently repaired as follows:
Repairs included the removal of the salon interior fit‐out/furnishings to better access the interior keel grid liner.
The mast was removed in the course of repairs.
The keel was removed and exterior coatings and gelcoat sanded away, locally, to inspect exterior hull for possible damage from grounding. Keel bolts inspected for possible damage and corrosion arising from the grounding. No damage was found in either case.
The bottoms of all interior liner pans in the salon and galley areas have been removed. Separation and delamination was noted on most. The hull did not show any visible areas of damage to the interior skins. Percussive testing did not reveal any other areas of delamination. Subsequently, the liner has been repaired at the intersection between the salon and galley/machinery space grids and bonded to the hull using multiple laminates of biaxial and unidirectional fibreglass and epoxy resin. Aft hull was reinforced in area adjacent the aft keel bolt.
Port and starboard outboard liner, chain plate attachment points, appear to be unaffected by grounding. Local FRP tabbing and flange bonding appears intact.
All repair work performed by the current owner appears to be done to industry standards.
All structural and cosmetic work on the interior grid and interior fit‐out and systems have been reinstalled. Keel installed and bottom paint touched up. Mast stepped and rig tuned.

[Ljbuckers]

Attached are photos of the work:

[sailormed]

Personally I would look for another Beneteau 40.7 if that was my dream boat.

[Ljbuckers]

I wouldn't say it was my dream boat, however being new to this and this being my first vessel to own I feel the Bavaria or Beneteau at 40' would be the perfect for liveaboard.

It is just the two of us and a dog, with my 14 year old staying for summers and extended trips, so I don't need the 3 cabin version which nearly everyone seems to have.

[desodave]

Originally Posted by CarlF

A boat that was professionally repaired under supervision by an insurance company adjuster, then passed survey, and then was insured after the repair by the same insurance company -- is a very good bet. Almost certainly stronger than when new.

I would talk to the insurance company and ask if they would again insure the boat if you bought it.

We made the mistake of putting our boat in charter and it was grounded (hard one) near the end of its first year. The boat was repaired at Blackline, a very reputable yard on the Island, in line with Carl's post, and we've had no issues with it 15 years later. A traditional hull though, not with a liner. Total cost (inc the deductible paid by the charterer) was about $30k Cdn.


I have been told repeatedly that the repaired hull is stronger behind the keel than the original. If the insurance company surveyor supervised the repair, and deemed it satisfactory, it would seem contradictory imo for them to then refuse to insure the repaired boat.


The seller has been honest in disclosing the repair and presumably provided the repair pictures. You might want to find out the yard where it was repaired before you make a decision (or get your survey) for a preliminary assessment of their reputation.


It comes down to what gives you peace of mind. Do you trust your survey (and by extension the previous one) or not? Our boat's grounding p...ed me off at the time, but I've never worried about it since then because I accepted that the repair work was done in a quality yard supervised by a qualified surveyor - and it was insured by the same insurer under both a charter policy and a personal one.

[psk125]

This sounds a lot like this thread:https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-245651.html. That OP decided to look elsewhere.
It seems to be a different boat, but the same story. As before, any grounding that required so much extensive reworking, even if paid for by insurance and supervised by whoever, leaves questions. The first one might be"Why are they selling, if the boat is in such good condition?".

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by CarlF

A boat that was professionally repaired under supervision by an insurance company adjuster, then passed survey, and then was insured after the repair by the same insurance company -- is a very good bet. Almost certainly stronger than when new.

I would talk to the insurance company and ask if they would again insure the boat if you bought it.

I agree with these comments based on personal experience. We were in a similar situation about 3 years ago when it was accidentally revealed very late in the purchase process that the subject boat had hit a rock and was seriously damaged. We were then able to acquire a copy of the post-accident survey and copies of all invoices related to the repair. Total cost payed out by the insurance company was about 95% of the boat's value. So we contacted, the insurance company, the various companies that essentially rebuilt the boat (Beneteau First 35s5) and a number of local brokers.

The insurance company was willing and had already re-insured the boat. They continue to do so. They paid out the very high repair cost because they were confident that the repairs would be well done and that the boat would be fit for purpose. Local brokers were unanimous, that because of who did the repairs, and how they were done, the boat would actually be better than new. They would be happy to sell the boat and reveal what had happened to it (even though the broker who was selling us the boat did not do so, despite knowing about the accident). This forum provided similar advice to that noted in the quote above.

We have not regretted buying the boat. There are no indications that the boat was ever damaged except for the stainless keel bolts where there would normally be iron bolts. The interior looks like new despite being 30 years old (everything was taken out and refinished prior to reinstallation). The less than transparent PO was selling the boat to buy a power boat as a result of changing interests.

The quote above regarding insurance is an important one and I would also seek advice from other brokers regarding the quality of the shop(s) that did the repairs.