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Old 28-06-2020, 15:31   #1
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GPS upended?

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Old 28-06-2020, 15:59   #2
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Re: GPS upended?

Well, if their 5G network actually does interfere with GPS, I would think there would be much bigger issues than the impact on recreational boating. They mention defense and NASA.
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Old 28-06-2020, 16:38   #3
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Re: GPS upended?

Unlikely. They got the Federal Agency approval.


Gps is not the only system there. Nobody cares if it goes bonkers (Galileo did, and more than once).


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Old 28-06-2020, 20:17   #4
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Re: GPS upended?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Gps is not the only system there. Nobody cares if it goes bonkers
If that were true, why wouldn’t they just shut down GPS, save the expense of running it, and auction off the frequency band to make even more money?
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Old 29-06-2020, 04:38   #5
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Re: GPS upended?

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If that were true, why wouldn’t they just shut down GPS, save the expense of running it, and auction off the frequency band to make even more money?
"They" in the case of GPS are the U.S. military who built the system in the first place and maintain it. For obvious reasons the fact that there are Russian, Chinese, and European alternatives to GPS doesn't give them the warm and fuzzies to make them comfortable depending on those systems and shutting down their own.
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Old 29-06-2020, 04:53   #6
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Re: GPS upended?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Unlikely. They got the Federal Agency approval.
Gps is not the only system there. Nobody cares if it goes bonkers (Galileo did, and more than once)
b.
But all GNSS systems use frequencies in the same narrow bands so they will all be affected by the same interference.
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Old 29-06-2020, 05:04   #7
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Re: GPS upended?

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"They" in the case of GPS are the U.S. military who built the system in the first place and maintain it. For obvious reasons the fact that there are Russian, Chinese, and European alternatives to GPS doesn't give them the warm and fuzzies to make them comfortable depending on those systems and shutting down their own.

Yes, and that’s just the military side. I would argue the non-military use of GPS has also become very important. That’s why other countries have developed their own systems and why we wouldn’t let ours get screwed up.
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Old 29-06-2020, 05:31   #8
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Re: GPS upended?

1. There are also rumors circulating that 5G causes COVID.

2. The fear that current GPS units would need to be upgraded.

What does this mean? How old are the units that would need to be upgraded? If someone is proclaiming they “need a reliable navigation system as a recreational boater” and their current gps/plotter is 15-20 years old, they’re need to re-evaluate.

However if a 3 year old system is in danger of being unable to reject out of band interference, there is a bandwidth allocation problem.

There’s just nothing in the article to support any one position.
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Old 29-06-2020, 05:48   #9
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Re: GPS upended?

I have noticed a reduction in GPS accuracy across all of my devices as we came up through the ICW dismal swamp route into the Chesapeake the last few days. Was really bad around Norfolk.

Has this started already?
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Old 29-06-2020, 06:26   #10
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Re: GPS upended?

Issues include intermodulation (mixing of signals of different frequencies that generate sum and difference signals on frequencies of interest) and cheap radio receiver front ends that can be overloaded by strong signals.

Some errors in fact in the article cited. FCC is not the sole arbiter of radio in the US. NTIA has a seat at the table.

Regardless there is cause for concern.
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Old 29-06-2020, 06:51   #11
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Re: GPS upended?

Military uses a different frequency and the Sats are at a different transmit power I believe as well. Military GPS will penetrate a jungle canopy and the receiver will work, a civilian GPS won’t.

However the civilian use of GPS is enormous and is exceedingly important, I can’t imagine anything being allowed to interfere.

My guess is that only very old GPS receivers will be affected, ones that have most likely been replaced years ago with ones with built in maps, remember the originals had n I mao data, they were like Loran’s, just more accurate.
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Old 29-06-2020, 07:12   #12
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Re: GPS upended?

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Military uses a different frequency and the Sats are at a different transmit power I believe as well. Military GPS will penetrate a jungle canopy and the receiver will work, a civilian GPS won’t.
No. You're confusing selective availability (SA) with mainstream GPS. Same satellites, same frequencies, same power. SA has been turned off for a long time and just adds jitter to the timing that military GPS receivers can back out. It all become moot with differential GPS and WAAS.

That isn't to say military GPS receivers don't have higher sensitivity and better selectivity. It was embarrassing during Desert Shield to have US military using civilian GPS receivers for higher reliability. *sigh*
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Old 29-06-2020, 07:13   #13
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Re: GPS upended?

As a visitor here in the Outer Banks, NC., I do not know what is 'normal' for this area but cellphone GPS, usually very accurate, is bonkers. On a 20 mile trip never leaving the same road it told us 8 times how to get back to the road we were on.
At least two radio stations are bleeding like mad. One FM 91.?? is coming in fairly clear from 66.000 all the way to 101.500.
We haven't got the boat back in the water yet but...I don't think we will be trusting the GPS...
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Old 29-06-2020, 09:53   #14
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Re: GPS upended?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
But all GNSS systems use frequencies in the same narrow bands so they will all be affected by the same interference.

Interference.


What interference? US agency FCC clearly was of a different opinion, eh?


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Old 29-06-2020, 10:18   #15
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Re: GPS upended?

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Originally Posted by BlackHeron View Post
I have noticed a reduction in GPS accuracy across all of my devices as we came up through the ICW dismal swamp route into the Chesapeake the last few days. Was really bad around Norfolk.

Has this started already?
It probably has something to do with being in Norfolk: one of the biggest naval bases.
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