Govt Shutdown Impact on Boaters

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

If Obama caves and negotiates on the ACA, The US is lost.

if he does not, we run up our debt as a nation to the point it cannot be paid back. and then the US is lost.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by scoobert

if he does not, we run up our debt as a nation to the point it cannot be paid back. and then the US is lost.

Scare tactics ... our budget deficit was not caused by Obamacare ... it hasn't even been implemented yet.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Scare tactics ... our budget deficit was not caused by Obamacare ... it hasn't even been implemented yet.

when the law passed we took a 1 trillion dollar hit to the deficit.
health care costs will and are, rising. many cannot keep the coverage they have. i know of many personally. if you want names, i have them.

right from my friend's facebook page.

Awesome getting letters saying my health insurance will no longer exist as of 2014 due to obamacare over 800 bucs a month for two people for the last 10 years now with a pregnant wife... now they say we must shop on the obama note and follow the rest off the cliff.....right we can trust the govt.#ourgovthelpstheworkinman.......lol lol lol....what a joke

THIS, is bad.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by scoobert

when the law passed we took a 1 trillion dollar hit to the deficit.
health care costs will and are, rising. many cannot keep the coverage they have. i know of many personally. if you want names, i have them.

right from my friend's facebook page.

THIS, is bad.

Please substantiate how the mere passing of a law added a trillion dollars to the deficit!

[Andy73]

Originally Posted by pbiJim

That might be a short term effect. A long term effect may be that those same people then go out & get jobs in the private sector, producing useful goods & services rather than being the foot soldiers of a bureaucracy. In that case, the GDP & the economy both actually improve in the long run.

I'm trying to keep the scope of this comment relative to economic theory, rather than politics.

Have to agree... It seems like there has been a growing misunderstanding that Government work adds to the economy. I am not saying that there is no value add, but paying the bureaucracy with tax dollars is not wealth creation, only redistribution...

[Andy73]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Please substantiate how the mere passing of a law added a trillion dollars to the deficit!

Because the costs of the program (including the infrastructure to support it, e.g. the thousands of additional IRS agents hired directly to support the 'fees' associated with this law) were not part of the existing budget.

How can you add an expensive service without planning to pay for it, and not have the deficit increase?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by scoobert

if he does not, we run up our debt as a nation to the point it cannot be paid back. and then the US is lost.

Read up on money supply and fiat currency. What' matters is confidence in the dollar , which the bond rates would suggest is as good as ever. Paper currency debt is a " construction"

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Andy73

Because the costs of the program (including the infrastructure to support it, e.g. the thousands of additional IRS agents hired directly to support the 'fees' associated with this law) were not part of the existing budget.

How can you add an expensive service without planning to pay for it, and not have the deficit increase?

Scale the military back and you can easily afford the ACA or even a single payer scheme ( which is likely to be cheaper again ) , its all a matter of priorities

.you could always raise taxes. I mean the US is towards the middle of the EU 28 as far as total tax take , you've got around 14 steps up yet !!!!

Dave

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Andy73

Because the costs of the program (including the infrastructure to support it, e.g. the thousands of additional IRS agents hired directly to support the 'fees' associated with this law) were not part of the existing budget.

How can you add an expensive service without planning to pay for it, and not have the deficit increase?

Get serious and get some facts. The entire budget deficit was less than a trillion dollars, besides isn't the government now shut down because we can't agree to fund Obamacare? How can an unfunded law create a deficit? Slow me some facts, not a bunch of bs!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Get serious and get some facts. The entire budget deficit was less than a trillion dollars, besides isn't the government now shut down because we can't agree to fund Obamacare? How can an unfunded law create a deficit? Slow me some facts, not a bunch of bs!

Actually the ACA is funded and is unaffected by the shutdown.

Dave

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Actually the ACA is funded and is unaffected by the shutdown.

Dave

You'll need to explain that to me and a lot of politician in Washington.

[Sand crab]

The ACA is funded but really hasn't been implemented fully yet. So you are both right!
Government shutdown won't halt ACA's insurance exchanges | Al Jazeera America

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Andy73

Have to agree... It seems like there has been a growing misunderstanding that Government work adds to the economy. I am not saying that there is no value add, but paying the bureaucracy with tax dollars is not wealth creation, only redistribution...

Getting closer now. If this was a business, surrounded by our borders, you must show a net gain after liabilities. We produce wealth by; farming, mining, manufacturing - in that order. Manufacturing dwarfs the wealth built by everything else. Everything else is overhead. If you are not producing product, you are on the cost side of this 'factory'. That includes teachers, police, truckers, artists, doctors, lawyers and ALL of government at ALL levels. What happened to US starting in the 60s is we stopped making stuff. We had so much acrued wealth that we could buy stuff from cheap manufacturers offshore and simply spend our collective savings. We have mortgaged the figurative 'farm' to the Chinese, (and others). As a nation, our ballance sheet is WORSE than the city of Detroit. DO you see where this is going? Who will be our 'emergency manager'? We cannot continue to 'tax some more' to pay for services for people who do not work, do not pay taxes. Please tell me why it is OK or logical to let prople who live off our largesse, who have no skin in this game, to vote our taxes? And, while we are at it, why should people who own no property vote my property tax?

How did we get this far off-topic?

The issue is not that the Park Service has usurped control and ownership of the public's land. It is that the weenies in charge (whitehouse) permit and encourage them to make life as difficult as possible for everyone. This should be seen as the diversion that it is. It is not the fault of 30 guys in the House, however, those guys and others who insist on fiscal responsibility are being vilified by the King and his mignons who refuse to talk about the elephant herd stampeeding through the room. Simply acquescing to the demand for a rubber stamp is truely kicking our collective cans down the road.

I appolgize. The custodians of our parks should decide whether they work for the people or the King & court. When its over, they will be remembered for what they are doing and we should not forget who was running the circus when its time to vote.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

.you could always raise taxes. I mean the US is towards the middle of the EU 28 as far as total tax take , you've got around 14 steps up yet !!!!

Dave

raising taxes, decreases tax income. people have less to spend, generate less spending, buy less, and it hurts places and people that rely on that cash.
if you on the other hand lower the tax rate, then the government receives more money. we can all understand this is we can see the big picture.

know what else happens when taxes go up? evasion goes up. so even less money for the bloated government.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

The ACA is funded but really hasn't been implemented fully yet. So you are both right!
Government shutdown won't halt ACA's insurance exchanges | Al Jazeera America

How can you say it's funded if the budget that includes the funding has been passed? Why does Obama say he won't negotiate on Obamacare? Why do the Tea Party people say they are willing to fund everything but Obamacare? Sure seems like it's all about funding Obamacare to me.