Furlers vs Hank on for long range liveaboard cruisers

[captncruise]

My wife and I purchased a Cole43, an ex racing boat that had a crew of 8-10. We detuned it and added a Pro Furl roller furler and Arco62 sheet winches. Always headed into wind when furling no problems as long as we maintained a little tension on jib sheets.
We lived aboard and cruised the East Coast of Australia for 17 years. The only time we had crew they broke something or got seasick so I made sure Wife could do everything except change the engine oil or unblock the toilet.
We would always put a reef in the main at night or drop it if heavy weather was forecast. We had an inner fore stay with a small sail that we only used a couple of times.
Our watches were 3 hours day and night and who ever was off watch would go below and rest . That way we would be ready for any changes in conditions.
Enjoy your family cruising, it is a great way to raise a family.

[Zofia]

We had a small high cut heavy weather jib made for our inner forestry. It was a hank-on that supposedly could be released from a zipped deck bag when raising the halyard. In reality it required a visit to the foredeck to release the zipper and another to stow it later on. Our Genoa is on a Fancor furler and our main is in-mast Selden. We’ve had minimal problem with either in 10 years. After needing to use the hanked-on sail during heavy weather (35kts & 3.5m swells) during a 5.5 day off-shore passage we immediately upgraded the sail to a furling one. We could see the irony in being forced out of the safety of the cockpit in a heaving sea to both deploy and retrieve our heavy weather sail! Perhaps improved set-up, or an electric winch might help keep every-one off the foredeck.
PS I can’t recall ever seeing a catamaran without furling jibs/Genoa’s/headies/code zero’s - lots of folk must have got these issues under control.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Any blood lost on the deck by the foredeck crew is normally washed away quite quickly.

Love that!

On another note....
Make sure to carry plenty of spare air cartridges for the foredeck crew's self inflating PFDs!

[Mind you, my wife thought it funny to watch but after the second time mine self-inflated whilst I was up forward doing this-and-that I switched the thingy-ma-bob to manual inflate.]

[stevehalter]

Originally Posted by fursoc

Thanks Jim. Yes furling headsail does seem in theory to make a lot of sense for ease of use. I guess my experience is an anomaly.

Ok, our furling unit is a Facnor LS180. I just did some quick googling and it appears that most people that have problems with them end up having to buy new ones. Is that normal? I would've thought most this things can be taken apart and greased or whatever and away we go.

OK enough of the. I am in Australia and have 25 years sailing off shore and coast. My present system is profurl furler for headsail and screecher 11 years old and never touched them. My forestay is very tight because i am on a catamaran. This will kill some furlers. just remember cheap man pays twice

[Hasbeen]

I did 53,000 miles around the Pacific in a very good sailing 40 footer. I used only a No2 Genoa to about 15 knots, that never came off the forestay. It was always bagged in a suitable long bag lashed down on the foredeck.


I used a similar sized drifter of 3 Oz terylene, with a heavy luff rope, set flying, [not hanked on], in less than 6 knots, & a 160 Sq. Ft working jib set above the bagged genoa in above 15 knots. With a nicely balanced hull, I have made 1000 mile heavy weather passages on the wind with just that little jib, & others broader with just a triple reefed main.


Much of my sailing was with in 10 degrees of the equator, so in light winds, & often to windward. You need good shaped sails, not all stretched or of too heavy material for this.


I have ridden out 3 cyclones at anchor in good to only moderate anchorages, & many 40 knot plus blows, some just behind an island. I gave thanks each time that my boat had minimal windage. I would not have been very happy if I had the extra windage of a furling spar up there, particularly near the front of the boat, which will make them shear around a lot more.


While I can see the real advantage of roller furling, I do like the superior windward ability of a sail not stretched from sailing partly furled in heavier weather than is good for it.


Being a bit of a coward, I would be worried greatly about the extra windage when/if the stuff hits the fan, & you are in a less than perfect anchorage.

[cj88]

Colligo Marine have a synthetic Hank-on furling system for straight luff sails but it doesn't allow for reefing.

Extra Light Headsail Furling System — Colligo Marine®

Colligo Unfurls ExtraLightweight Headsail Furler — Colligo Marine®

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by svmariane

Love that!

On another note....
Make sure to carry plenty of spare air cartridges for the foredeck crew's self inflating PFDs!

[Mind you, my wife thought it funny to watch but after the second time mine self-inflated whilst I was up forward doing this-and-that I switched the thingy-ma-bob to manual inflate.]

Hammar inflators require at least 10cm immersion under solid water before inflating. They do not inflate in waves or spray on deck. Not sure if you can retrofit them in a regular bladder as they need a specific hole.

[NormanMartin]

Our boat has hank on headsails by choice. I have cruised plenty of boats with hank on headsails including boats in the 70 80 and 90 sizes.

Roller furling is the best way to go. If you can do a Solent Stay set up, even better.

Cats require a lot of gear changing and RF headsails and easily reefed mains are necessary in my opinion.

Have fun!

[JDGreenlee]

I guess I'm a cranky old man then. Circumnavigated west tropics with hanked on jib, genoa, and stay sails. Reefed the jib and stay sail on several occasions. I understand the thinking of those with commercial incentives to sell furlers or inexperience at sailing and seeking to lower risk and/or inconvenience, but the truth is: if one intends to make passage, then one must be able to competently work the foredeck - whether to hank sails or unjam the flipping furler. One must risk going forward at least daily if only to make rounds. That's my piece. Hanks it is. Keep it simple.

[nmccubbin]

Agreed with Jim and others that furler is way to go. We sailed about 40,000 miles before changing from jammed on to a Facnor furler. We have about 20,000 On it including Arctic to Caribbean
In addition to checking condition of your furler check it’s size. Many are too small. We bought for a 60 ft boat although we are only 47 feet

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by JDGreenlee

but the truth is: if one intends to make passage, then one must be able to competently work the foredeck - whether to hank sails or unjam the flipping furler. One must risk going forward at least daily if only to make rounds.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

[mike388]

If it is easier to furl down wind maybe because you are getting a halyard wrap at the top not at the furler ? Look up when trying to furl .
Mike

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Hammar inflators require at least 10cm immersion under solid water before inflating. They do not inflate in waves or spray on deck. Not sure if you can retrofit them in a regular bladder as they need a specific hole.

I have been up on the foerdeck with my feet wrapped around the headstay and probably gone under close to a meter occasionally. Good thing I did not have an inflatable vest (or any vest for that matter) on at the time, it would have ripped me off the headstay and I would be gone.

Speaking of which, I have a couple of Secumar Bolero harnesses with inflators I would let go pretty cheap. took them around the world in a locker and never used them. (I will put them in the classified section).

I am an advocate of taking a turn around the deck each watch, even if you have to lay off for a moment to do so. Too much going on to ignore a deck check, plus you have to toss the flying fish off the deck each morning or they get stuck in places and start to smell. If you are familiar with your foredeck you will not fear it.

M

[Brad Smith]

We have cruised full time since 2001 in a 46’ monohull ketch with 3 headsails, all on heavy duty Profurl furlers. We left from the US Mid Atlantic east coast then, and 18 years and 50,000 or so ocean miles later are in New Caledonia. We are two people, never have had crew. Prior to this boat, we did coastal sailing in a 35’ cutter rigged monohull which we bought new. When we bought it, it had hanked on headsails. After one year, we installed a Profurl furler for the Genoa.

Our experience tells us furlers are essential on short handed passage making boats. Going to the foredeck to change headsails as wind speed changes is dangerous and exhausting for typical middle aged short handed cruising couples. Further, where do you plan to store the 2 to 4 different sizes and cloth weights of the hanked on sails?.

Get big furlers. Plan to use a winch to furl the sails and figure out the required furling line leads. Consider heavy duty rope clutches on all furling lines. We have them and bless them regularly. When we bought our present furlers in 1999, Profurl was the only manufacturer whose warranty was not voided if a winch was used to furl the sail. You might want to check on that, as hand over hand furling is not practical on a boat of any size.

While you are at it, upsize the furling line on your working Genoa. When that sail is reefed, the furling line takes a meaningful load.

In 18 years of full time cruising, we have met so few boats with hanked on headsails that I cannot remember a single one.

Happy furling.

[txg]

Originally Posted by Brad Smith

Our experience tells us furlers are essential on short handed passage making boats. Going to the foredeck to change headsails as wind speed changes is dangerous and exhausting for typical middle aged short handed cruising couples. Further, where do you plan to store the 2 to 4 different sizes and cloth weights of the hanked on sails?.

We are a couple sailing a 35 footer without a furler but with twin parallel headstays. We have six different headsails that are easily stored in our big cockpit locker. We can go from 7sq m to 49sq m foresail upwind and from 7sq m to 98sq m foresail (98sq m is a hank-on twin booster) downwind and always have the perfect sailshape. We sailed our boat 10k nm with this configuration and it works pretty well.



Obviously, there are advantages with a furler but as others have stated in this thread, there are disadvantages as well.



In my point of view, the main problem with handling everything from the cockpit is that it will make people lack training of working on the foredeck. For us, it's no big deal to go forward even in heavy weather conditions. We've done it so many times, you simply clip in and crawl forward.



But even with the best furling systems there will be the need to get on the foredeck to clear a jammed line in bad weather. This is not necessarily a jammed furler, but could also be e.g. a sheet that is tangled on the mast or a cleat. And this is where it gets dangerous for you "all from the cockpit"-guys because of not being used to foredeck work.



In the last two years of cruising European, African and Caribbean waters, we've seen dozens of boats without furlers. Mostly smaller than our Dufour 35 (e.g. several Albin Vegas), but also some boats in our size range.


We also witnessed several furler problems when buddy boating with friends. Maybe this doesn't happen when using a perfectly serviced or new furler, but in my experience that is not the normal condition on most liveaboard boats.