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Old 07-04-2014, 09:29   #661
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I think that's the older girl in the pic. Not the sick one.
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:53   #662
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
well, this sure simplifies the decision as whether to keep our boat USCG / US flagged or not.

I certainly do not want some bozo in the US Navy or Coast Guard having the authority to sink my boat in international waters for their own convenience.

I've worked with the Navy, and with the Coast Guard, and they're as nice a bunch of guys as any group of teenagers who have been armed and trained by the US government.

But that's basically what they are.
Scuttling the boat was the correct action, as hard as it must of been for Eric and Charlotte. We are surmising the cause of water intake when ever the engine was started, but it is clear that the engine could not be used.

Perhaps IF Eric was able to stay with the boat, he could have brought it to a safe port. Perhaps not. There would be a lot of criticism if a second h rescue would have been needed.

No matter, we have all seen the criticisms of those that were rescued elsewhere and did not scuttle their boat as they can become hazards to navigation. Imagine coming on a ghost boost at night.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:12   #663
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I'm quoting myself which is a first but makes sense in this case:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Really?! REALLY?! A Hans Christian 36 in near perfect sailing weather, scuttled?! Is that what it has come to?

Who ever said that sailing a boat did not include a responsibility towards the boat? What is all that talk about good to leave it behind? It's a drama, that is what it is! Every sailor looses a bit of their soul when a boat goes down, respect the boat, don't ridicule it! Stay ashore if you feel no love for the boat, no respect for the sea. GD landlubbers.

I hope to hear the facts before they start burning sailors at the stake. If you didn't watch the movie "World War Z" yet, you better do that quick because it looks like it's in progress already.
From all the reactions I get in this thread and outside of it too, I clearly see that many understand what I mean but that there is a substantial group that doesn't. So let me clarify:

- I do not challenge Eric's decision to abandon the boat. It most probably is the correct decision. That is why I wrote that I "hope to hear the facts". For now, I am assuming that the boat was good enough to sail but that he determined that his wife could not handle the situation with the girls on her own, which makes it a choice between boat and wife which is a clear decision. Don't forget that Charlotte was seasick which is about the worst thing that can happen to you on a passage. People quickly become emotional wrecks when seasick. It does not matter much how big the boat is; you can get very seasick on an aircraft carrier too.

- Abandoning or scuttling a boat is a dramatic event. If the boat can still be sailed it is worse than that: I find it a shameful act, even if there's no other option. Where I come from, the Navy would have put a crew on the sailboat to bring her in and every crew member would be jumping to get selected for the job. That's how it should be done. It's been some time that I was in the armed forces and also since I emigrated from my home country, but I still like to think the Royal Navies from Holland and England would bring the boat back that way. Nostalgia? may be.

- Down with the masses that scream about it being wrong taking babies and youngsters to sea etc. My father was born on a ship, how about that for being irresponsible in their ignorant views?! It's why I referred to "World War Z": they are a dumbed down mass of couch dwelling, deteriorating flesh. They have lost all hope for themselves, but are quick to slash at others who are actually living and going after their goals, because that is all the excitement left for them. They don't care about other peoples feelings at all; the thought doesn't even come up with them.

- My rant at landlubbers who think it's fine or even smart to abandon a boat was addressed to that same group of couch dwelling commenters. Not to Rebel Heart crew or CF members of-course. I don't think Eric will think it was particularly fine or smart to abandon his boat; at best it was a thing that had to be done as he did not have other options left. A decision like that can mean financial ruin. May be commenters like that so that this family ends up just like themselves, on a couch.

- All this does not mean that I think Eric did everything right. I wrote before that I think errors have been made, but those errors would be made earlier. I first was under the impression that the salmonella outbreak happened aboard and pointed at the provisioning or food preparation, but now I hear the salmonella poisoning already happened before they left and this may be a relapse or something totally different.

We don't know that. What I do know is that Charlotte should have been okay'ish using seasickness meds instead of being seriously ill and an emotional wreck. I base that on her blog posts that were quoted here. Also, the decision to leave port with a crew that's not ready or able, may have been wrong. But this is all speculation. I only write about it because these are often made mistakes and many on CF are here to learn; I also still learn, no matter how long I've been sailing already. Every time we hoist a sail, we learn. It was not long ago that there was a discussion on CF about long passages and I stressed on the importance of food, the exhaustion, the watch keeping schedules etc. All that is part of it. I know this well because I didn't always do this right myself and would again if I don't keep the importance in mind at all times.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:14   #664
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I've been following this tragic story since it broke. I only know Eric and Charlotte through their posts here, and while I did not always agree with their politics, I have nothing but admiration for their spirit and for their endeavours.

If they choose to share their story with CF, then I will be happy to listen. If they have lessons to offer, I'm sure they will do so. Until then, idle speculation is simply entertainment -- no different than what most of the so-called "news" media does these days.

Give them space and time to recover. They've been through hell. Let them know there is a community that cares about them, but give them time to begin the healing.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:19   #665
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I really wasn't going to voice an opinion, until listening to the Today Show. Such deep criticism of a family going cruising. Would they also have the same indictment if they were Survivalists in the mountains in Montana, avoiding the government, and days away from medical care. Nearly lost my wife and daughter in '72 when they were hit by a drunk driver, roads aren't 100% safe either. Real cruising is a bit of an extreme life style, but you know, if you don't do anything, you can't do anything wrong. Also realize, that everyone who owns a boat is considered wealthy, and if you are cruising, you must be extremely wealthy. Those of us that are, or have cruised are some of the most wealthy people, but it isn't financial wealth, it is the wealth of really living life. I do agree in scuttling and abandoned the vessel, there is enough stuff out there to hit, more isn't needed. can always make more money to buy another one, you just can't make more time, or slow down life's passing.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:46   #666
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

For those questioning donations without them asking for them:

1. They would never ask, even if they needed it.
2. It's something that we can actually do for them from so far away. I want to give them a hug. I want to reassure them. I want to offer them a place to stay. But I can't. I can, however, send a small token to them.
3. They aren't wealthy and they've lost their one major asset. Eric was working as they went. There is no huge cruising kitty.
4. They are being flooded by people who think that they are bad parents and bad people. A tangible gesture of support means more than a positive comment on a news site or a forum (although those are important, too).
5. If they don't want it, then they can donate it to a good cause.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:50   #667
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

When I did the trip from Galapagos to Marquesas, 3,200 nms, when we were in about the middle of the passage we were really a long way from shore, any shore.

Its about the only time I have got the heeby-geebys being on any boat. I was wondering what just one broken leg, or one major failure would do and how gangrene could set in before landfall. (Tiny spot of landfall!). For the rest of that watch I was holding onto every hand hold for grim death.

Its an f'ing long way into the middle of nowhere.

If the boat was cracking up, or some weird undiagnosable, unrepairable leak etc, or if I couldnt rely on the boat anymore it would be crazy to give up the offer of a nice warm ship.

That run to the marquesas, either from Mexico or Panama/Galapagos is the longest stretch of water normal cruisers do. And when you are in the middle of it the safety of the world is, and feels, a long way away.

That being said, I would do everything I can to get Sea Life home if I thought I could do it.

I agree that an abandoned boat MUST be scuttled!
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:57   #668
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I have read all earlier posts but only scanned the
last 15 pages of posts. This thread has just
become rehashing and bickering.

The only thing I'll add: Without extensive testing,
nobody could know what items are contaminated
with salmonella. Would you want to be on a boat
for many days, eating the stores aboard with a
chance of contacting salmonella?

It's a simple choice.

Wishing you the best, Rebel Heart crew.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:00   #669

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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Agree with the scuttling "yes" assessments by you all. The boat would have been a hazard or the boat might be stripped to the waterline by vagrants if they ever did chance upon it again. If he had stayed he would have been viewed as callous and who knows, another rescue perhaps?

They can put finality on knowing what happened to it and can move on with their lives.

But its crushing. Deep to my core.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:10   #670
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Long-time lurker here. This is my first post to this forum, so I'm not sure how it will look once I hit "Post".

From 1 to 5, exactly what you said, Cwyskham.

Mods, can the donation link be made "sticky" so it will be up top?

Be safe Rebel Heart!
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:14   #671
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I don't mind a good debate HH, but what exactly are we debating here? We have very few facts, and we won't get them till Eric shows up an tells them to us. Debating conjecture is just a waste of time. (IMHO)

Absolutely right. Even long after, when they are good and ready to post, it doesn't need to be rehashed over and over. Once they've posted what they want to post, hopefully people will read it and learn what they can without rehashing it.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:44   #672
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I first read the story about the Rebel Heart over the weekend. The name rang a bell but the light did not go on until last night. I have been very busy all weekend and last night figured I would look at CF real quick before getting some needed sleep....

Well, that did not work out real well, since I saw this thread about Rebel Heart and at the point the light bulb DID go on.

I was glad to see the family rescued but loosing the boat is horrible...

On another website I read, a thread was started about Rebel Heart. Some were attacking the family, others defending. I went and explained things a bit since I had much better information from CF.

Some people think taking a kid on a boat is unsafe and it sure is. But life is a risk avoidance exercise. How many kids are killed/hurt by cars every year as a percentage of the user population? How about tractors or lawn mowers? I don't hear of many kids living on boats getting hurt or killed but it is summer and we will hear of tractor and mower accidents soon...

I wish my kids were YOUNGER and we had the money and time to head off and see the world. Alas, that was not in the cards we were delt so we do what we do. Most likely, the wifey and I will be in the older demographic who lives/travels on a boat. If we play the cards right...

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Old 07-04-2014, 12:06   #673
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I haven't been to this site in awhile, but when I started seeing the articles I recognized Eric, Charlotte, and their kids. I came here in the hopes that the reports were inaccurate, but I see that it's true I hope that the baby is back to her old healthy self ASAP.

Makes me sad to read second-guessing here of all places. I read their blogs for awhile, they worked hard to get ready for their voyage and were knowledgeable and well-prepared. At least wait for them to return to shore before picking at what they did or didn't do.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:15   #674
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

With all the negative comments from the holier-than-thou's in the media second guessing their decision to go to sea with the children, they'll be lucky if they don't get arrested for child endangerment when they get to shore. I hope not, but I've seen horror stories where people lost their kids for stupid reasons. I hope this doesn't happen, but I would not be surprised. They are going to California after all.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:23   #675
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Re: Forum Member's boat and daughter in trouble off of Mexico

I am very glad to learn that Eric & family made it safely off the boat and are making way to shore. I am very sad that they had to abandon their vessel and scuttle her. I wish them all the best and hope to hear from them on this forum after their wounds have been healed a bit. A little forbearance and patience will go a long ways to help them, they have come through a very trying experience and no doubt with all the media attention placed on them, their trials are far from over. As stated earlier, the good news is the News people have a short attention span, so while the spot light will be strong, it will thankfully be brief.
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