Fla

[Kettlewell]

I've read that and IMO, FWC is misinterpreting the law. But, it's takes someone to challenge it in court to fix the problem (or the law as I don't believe that was the intent).

That dmv.org website is not an official state website--it is some private company. This quote is from the Florida Fish and Wildlife website:

Documented vessels without a state registration in full force and effect must also obtain a Florida registration and display the validation decal on the port side of the vessel when using Florida waters.

And, yes people have been fined for this.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Well, I suspect that's because these damned Yankees and Northern Middle Class Liberals and Canadians and MidWesterners, all these tourists and sojourners, have been ruining Florida for the locals.

To the tune of 90,000,000 visitors last year!

No matter how hard we try, they still show up!

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Group9

I think the big deal to many people is that it seems to be a violation of federal law.

It is very clearly, and absolutely, NOT a violation of federal law.

In fact, the Coast Guard regs very specifically say that states may require you to register your documented boat, and display a state decal, though they cannot require you to display state numbers on it. This is exactly what Florida does. You must register the boat, display the small decal on it, but you are not required to display numbers like non-documented boats are.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

And, yes people have been fined for this.

And no, they have not. Read the article. If they come from a state that does not require registration, they get a warning. They are given time to register their boat legally. In fact this is detailed quite clearly in the article. No registration in your home state--you get a warning, you do NOT get an immediate fine.

The article does not discuss any case where someone chose to ignore the warning and eventually got a real ticket. I don't doubt that has happened, but then that is what SHOULD happen to someone who is dumb enough to ignore the warning that they get.

Once again, as far as I am aware, no one has EVER gotten fined immediately upon entering Florida, because they were coming from a state that didn't require registration. If you have actual, real evidence that this has happened, I would be very interested in seeing it. My guess is that if it ever does happen, the courts would throw it out.

[Kettlewell]

You're right about my wording, I should have said that people have been stopped for it. I don't know if anyone has actually been fined for it. I suspect most boaters stopped would just get a warning as long as your other papers were in order. One question I would have is what a transient boater registering their boat is supposed to put on the registration form (HSMV 87244) where it is mandatory to list the "owner's street address in Florida?" This is important because you have to register the boat with the county tax collector's office. Anyone have any idea where there is a county tax collector's office close to the water? Then you have to come up with a street address in that county.

[Kettlewell]

Pinellas County has a nice, clear website with instructions on how to register your documented vessel:

Documented Vessel Registration

All vessels five net tons or more meeting the criteria of a commercial vessel as defined by the U.S. Coast Guard must be federally documented. Pleasure yachts five net tons or more may be federally documented or titled at the owner's option. For more information, contact the U.S. Coast Guard National Vessel Documentation Center.

To register a documented vessel please bring the following items to the Tax Collector's office:

Form HSMV 87244, Application to Register Non-Titled Vessels, accurately completed.
Copy of documentation papers
Copy of executed bill of sale
Proof of sales tax paid or proof of sales tax exemption
Payment of a registration fee based on length of vessel

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

One question I would have is what a transient boater registering their boat is supposed to put on the registration form (HSMV 87244) where it is mandatory to list the "owner's street address in Florida?" This is important because you have to register the boat with the county tax collector's office. Anyone have any idea where there is a county tax collector's office close to the water? Then you have to come up with a street address in that county.

I just talked to the local tax collector. She stated they do have to have a Florida mailing address, she didn't explain why. I said, they don't live here, and she replied use a friend's address or a marina.

Their office is 2 blocks from my house. I'll let you tie up to my dock (next to a beautiful catamaran ), then it's a 5 minute walk.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Pinellas County has a nice, clear website with instructions on how to register your documented vessel:

Documented Vessel Registration

Pinellas County adds a surcharge so buyer beware! Maybe that's how they pay for their nice website!

The state of Florida allows counties to add surcharges to vessel registrations (as they also do with sales tax).

Find a county without a surcharge and the 40-65' price goes from $198.88 to $135.00

Rumors have it even some FL residents play such a game!

[Group9]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

It is very clearly, and absolutely, NOT a violation of federal law.

In fact, the Coast Guard regs very specifically say that states may require you to register your documented boat, and display a state decal, though they cannot require you to display state numbers on it. This is exactly what Florida does. You must register the boat, display the small decal on it, but you are not required to display numbers like non-documented boats are.

Yes, your state of residence can require you to register it, not one you are passing through. Does Full Faith and Credit ring a bell? If you are operating your vessel under the rules of your state, you are supposed to be good to go in states you transit through, same as your car.

A good analogy would be a state requiring anyone who drives their vehicle through without an inspection sticker, having to go buy one, even if the state they lived in and operated the vehicle in, when not traveling, did not require one.

Try and use your imagination and see how f'ed up travel between the states would become, no matter what type, if all states adapted Florida's position on all types of conveyance. Our founding fathers predicted this and covered it.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I've read that and IMO, FWC is misinterpreting the law. But, it's takes someone to challenge it in court to fix the problem (or the law as I don't believe that was the intent).

Per the DMV website at:
Florida Boat Registration, Licenses, Forms, & Information at DMV.org: The DMV Made Simple



It doesn't say only from states that have a registration system for USCG documented boats.

IMO, If you can prove you are a non-resident and you've been here less than 90 days (via marina slip receipts from another state), that should be good enough.

Are there any known cases where fines were assessed? (I know names of lawyers who love to take gov't entities to court!)

Of course, the whole proposition of guilty until proven innocent still grinds my butt!

I worked for a state attorney general for five years. A good portion of our time was spent cleaing up messes from state agencies, who had decided to start enforcing law based on a roll call vote at the agency, or the opinion of a political appointee, instead of calling us. What's fun is when you tell an agency to start tracking down people to give money back they had no authority to collect, and watch that crap hit the fan.

It's all fine until somebody gets mad enough to make an issue out of it. And, those people always show up, sooner or later.

[Hank Kivett]

wow...easy guys settle down...Here is what i know at this point..i am comming to fla to visit and i dont plan on staying and cant really say i would be there longer than 90 days but lets assume i will...and there maybe a trip accross to the islands..that is not certain yet...I was asking what the requirments were thats all ...didnt say i was trying to get out of anything. I just wanted to know what the law requires...Now here in North Carolina for instance...If u are tied up at a marina on the 1st of January the marina is required by law to furninsh the county a list of names and address of all that are tied regardless of where u are from...Now once u recieve u r tax bill...and u will...all you have to do is present u papers or prof of residence from another state and u tax is expempt. Its called "Yacht in Transit"..Now they will ck with the state u said u are from to ensure u are from there. Now here is what i see is comming to Fla...these mooring fields that are now under test in 4 cities will be evaluated in July and if the towns that have them indicate they like them and the state aggrees look for every town on the ICW to reach out and include all areas around them (except the ICW which is Federal) in there city limits...what does this mean ? it means they will install theses fields and require anyone traveling down or up that requires anchoring to tie up at a mooring ball or wet slip.. there by stopping or severaly cutting back on just dropping an anchor anywhere..look for law enforcement be it state or city to issue u a ticket or fine if u are within there city limits and not on a ball or slip. Now that is just my thinking dont mean its going to happen but knowing the cities and there greed i suspect it is being discussed as we speak...The cites have an organization call the "league of cities" which is a lobby group at the state capt. who's mission is to push for leg items that cities want...and belive me this cash cow is somethng they want....

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Group9

A good analogy would be a state requiring anyone who drives their vehicle through without an inspection sticker, having to go buy one...

No, actually, that's a pretty lousy analogy. A REAL analogy would be a state requiring anyone who brings their vehicle and stays for more than three months, having to register the car and get it inspected in that state.

OH WAIT!!! Every state already does that! Gee, what a surprise.

This has nothing to do with "full faith and credit." It simply has to do with states (virtually ALL states, not just Florida) saying that if you come and stay for months at a time, then you are using the common elements of the state enough that you need to pay a little bit for them.

Again, twist it however you want, but this is absolutely and positively NOT any sort of violation of any federal law, or of the Constitution, or of anything else.

[Hudson Force]

I don't have many concerns about mooring fields, especially if they aslo provide shore amenities,- dinghy dock, showers, pump-out, water, etc. I don't see anything unique about mooring fields in Florida. For the amount of waterways, they are about as common as mooring fields in Maryland and nowhere as dominant and restrictive as the mooring fields in New York, Conneccticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Maine. Most transient mooring rates in Florida are $15 to $20/day. Annapolis is $35 or $45 and Nantucket is $75/day!

[Blue Crab]

Boy, 75 a night. A week of those buys a Manson Supreme.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Hank Kivett

wow...easy guys settle down...Here is what i know at this point..i am comming to fla to visit and i dont plan on staying and cant really say i would be there longer than 90 days but lets assume i will...and there maybe a trip accross to the islands..that is not certain yet...I was asking what the requirments were thats all ...didnt say i was trying to get out of anything. I just wanted to know what the law requires...Now here in North Carolina for instance...If u are tied up at a marina on the 1st of January the marina is required by law to furninsh the county a list of names and address of all that are tied regardless of where u are from...Now once u recieve u r tax bill...and u will...all you have to do is present u papers or prof of residence from another state and u tax is expempt. Its called "Yacht in Transit"..Now they will ck with the state u said u are from to ensure u are from there. Now here is what i see is comming to Fla...these mooring fields that are now under test in 4 cities will be evaluated in July and if the towns that have them indicate they like them and the state aggrees look for every town on the ICW to reach out and include all areas around them (except the ICW which is Federal) in there city limits...what does this mean ? it means they will install theses fields and require anyone traveling down or up that requires anchoring to tie up at a mooring ball or wet slip.. there by stopping or severaly cutting back on just dropping an anchor anywhere..look for law enforcement be it state or city to issue u a ticket or fine if u are within there city limits and not on a ball or slip. Now that is just my thinking dont mean its going to happen but knowing the cities and there greed i suspect it is being discussed as we speak...The cites have an organization call the "league of cities" which is a lobby group at the state capt. who's mission is to push for leg items that cities want...and belive me this cash cow is somethng they want....

1) There are 5 cities in the 'test', not 4.
2) In order to 'control' the water, the municipality has to install/have a mooring field to get the submerged land lease from the state.
3) I don't know of any Florida mooring fields that turn a profit, in fact most are losing money.
4) Not having to look at derelict vessels is the main motivation for a municipality to pursue this option. Yes, there are those 'few' constituents who believe they own the water and the view that force the issue.