Fixer-up vs Ready-To-Go

[El Pinguino]

Many boats advertised as 'ready to go' will need new sails, rigging , and engine before you go very far.....

The rest will soon follow.....

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

....And looking at many ads for extensively refit boats, I've noted that often the time span for the refit has been so long that many of the "new" items ain't so new any more....
...if you are doing the refit yourself you have some control over the end date. Sure, many such projects run over the time estimate, but you can pull the plug and launch earlier if the urge to sail overwhelms your desire for completion to plan...

Precisely my observations.

I bought a plastic classic dock queen for half the price of a 2000 model year boat (and otherwise half the price of the best sistership that had a recent refit ~7 years ago). The plan at the outset was to find the least-used (wear/tear) dock queen (with good spars/engine/bones/pedigree) and replace all the systems.

I've made all major purchases for the refit including new standing/running rigging, sails, deck paint, windows/seals/acryclic for the hatches, new inverter/charger, solar, MPPT, electric toilets, LFP battery bank, gel start batteries, BMS, alternator, alternator regulator, essentially all new hoses of any type, new plumbing throughout, new pumps.

Only major purchases to go are fuel tanks, toerail nonsense, +/- big name plotter, LED lights.

Total outlay still less than a 2000 model year boat with 1-18yo components. The older boat of good pedigree and all new subsystems that I know intimately choice to me is a no-brainer. If the Perkins craps out I might be able to rebuild it in the boat for not much...worst case another 10-12k.

I have no idea how people spend years refitting a boat. Individuals/couples build entire boats and set sail in a year or two. It's not rocket science to unbolt something and bolt the new thing in...swap hoses...swap rigging...swap batteries...swap heads. (I'm not doing the deck prep/paint but am doing the toerail). The biggest time consumer (for me) isn't manual labor, it's over-analysing choices (smarter people would just buy stuff bolt and go).

I'm used to larger DIY projects but a boat refit to me is about as easy as it gets. You do have to have a charge card ready to pay for replacement components and be ready to turn a wrench...but if you factor this into the purchase...there really aren't any surprises...you're replacing everything!

[Kenomac]

The OP is talking about spending a significant amount to fix up a 1978, 41 year old boat. There’s no way he’s going to be dollars ahead of a year 2000 boat that’s 20 years newer. By the time he’d finish the refit, he’ll be at lease 50% upside down financially on the boat.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The OP is talking about spending a significant amount to fix up a 1978, 41 year old boat. There’s no way he’s going to be dollars ahead of a year 2000 boat that’s 20 years newer. By the time he’d finish the refit, he’ll be at lease 50% upside down financially on the boat.

I'm referring to a same-vintage boat. I've already purchased 90% of what I've mentioned. How much do you think a refit actually costs if the owner is turning the wrench?

[gallatin1988]

Singularity and Jim Cate captured my thinking in the above post.

For those you wondering the boat in question is an Alajuela 38. I am aiming for a sales price in mid 30's. This boat is not a unicorn just as good boat at hopefully a semi-decent price that's probably worth the time and money to refit before lack of use begins to really take a toll.

[john61ct]

Looks nice http://bluewaterboats.org/alajuela-38/

but I gotta say, do not count on getting much back when you're done

other than those priceless years of joy of course

which is the whole point. . .

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by gallatin1988

Singularity and Jim Cate captured my thinking in the above post.

For those you wondering the boat in question is an Alajuela 38. I am aiming for a sales price in mid 30's. This boat is not a unicorn just as good boat at hopefully a semi-decent price that's probably worth the time and money to refit before lack of use begins to really take a toll.

You're on the right track...strongly consider fact-checking the nay-sayers. I price-checked essentially all the subsystem components before I bought the boat. No surprises (but I did endeavor to find a boat with no soft-spots, gotchas, etc).

Do let me amend my first response in this thread....per a just-now Yachtworld review, I paid about 20-30% of the price of an equal-caliber year 2000 boat, will have less than 50% invested in the end vs the Yachworld offerings. The previously mentioned 50% is compared to the cheapest Jeanneaus out of Croatia.

People really do give away the older boats and there is quality to be found if you don't mind having an older ride. I really don't care about resale, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that in 10-15 years I would have lost more on the year 2000 boat vs far smaller refit costs.

[gallatin1988]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Looks nice The Alajuela 38 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

but I gotta say, do not count on getting much back when you're done

other than those priceless years of joy of course

which is the whole point. . .

I've never thought of a boat as a financial investment as much a mental health investment

[El Pinguino]

'But it is due for a major refit, including possibly a new engine (the current one is the orginal) or a rebuild, new tankage (fresh water and fuel), and new standing rigging and chainplates. There are no electronics to speak of and no roller furling.'

You should be able to knock that job list over in a few months... only hard ones ( in my view ) would be tanks and chain plates.
Only costly item is the engine. You can spend whatever you feel like on instruments..... you only really need a compass, a sounder, a GPS puck and Opencpn.

Return on investment? If that is what is wanted buy snake oil shares. I spent probably 120% of realistic sale price overhauling my boat 4 years ago....
I have the boat I want..... in the condition I want her....

[Ruso]

Here is my angle...
If I work in local hamburger shop for $10 per hour and can't afford a good "ready to go" boat I would find a job in the local shipyard and work slowly to my dream.. .one way or other
For last year searching for THE boat I slowly moved in my minds from "project" boat to "need some TLC" to "ready to go"(Mexican way) to "pristine condition"(California). I don't like what I do for living (really well payed though) and I even like less a boatyard job. I want to sail. It cost money - I make money, put aside funds slowly moving toward. Every sailboat with "TLC" is restoration of "historic" old horse car with no shop, tools and experience.. Who is in right minds would do it if you like riding a car?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Singularity

I'm referring to a same-vintage boat. I've already purchased 90% of what I've mentioned. How much do you think a refit actually costs if the owner is turning the wrench?

Please review post #1 of this thread.

Anyone having over $110,000 invested in a 38 foot, 41 year old vintage designed boat... not counting countless do it yourself hours...... is never a good or wise idea financially.

The original price for a Baba 35 of similar design, fully loaded back in 1985 was well under $110k (around $90k). How do I know this? Because I almost purchased one back then, but decided that it was too much money and over-overpriced. Why would anyone in their right mind pay the same price today for a 40 year old version?

My good friend purchased a 1990’s 38ft Comet with a new engine, roller furling and sail away ready in Italy last year for $14,000. Now that was a good deal.

The OP needs to continue shopping. IMO

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHpcBF8TGo

[gallatin1988]

FWIW,
A quick yatchworld search using the following search criteria:
Texas
Sail
Used
33' - 40'
$50,000 - $130,000
2000 - 2019

Returned 17 hits almost all of them Hunters, Catalinas, and Beneteaus

Moving my search outside of the Texas gulf coast incurs a probably a $2,000 to $10,000 (or more) additional cost due to travel to see the boat (or boats due to multiple trips to see mutliple boats in different states), surveys, and transport back to Texas.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

'But it is due for a major refit, including possibly a new engine (the current one is the orginal) or a rebuild, new tankage (fresh water and fuel), and new standing rigging and chainplates. There are no electronics to speak of and no roller furling.'

You should be able to knock that job list over in a few months... only hard ones ( in my view ) would be tanks and chain plates.
Only costly item is the engine. You can spend whatever you feel like on instruments..... you only really need a compass, a sounder, a GPS puck and Opencpn.

Return on investment? If that is what is wanted buy snake oil shares. I spent probably 120% of realistic sale price overhauling my boat 4 years ago....
I have the boat I want..... in the condition I want her....

I am just doing my refit now. Its not as big a job as some people make out. I just take it one chunk at a time. Mine is taking a while, because Im working away so much. I do as much as I can personally.

I have a slightly different take on a refit boat. I took it as an instalment payment purchase. So I didnt have to come up with that big chunk off cash up front or go into debt for.

Also as others have said I have done the exact features I wanted. Not to mention I know her pretty well now.

So far done titanium chain plates, new Yanmar 4JH4-TE, big Alts, half way through Dyneema rigging, working through elec sys upgrade, doing all new groco through hulls, 40 GPH watermaker, etc. Its been fun and Im still going.

Big ticket items still to get, sails and some electronics.

But 2 something years in I have got a lot of the big stuff done and an happy with the results so far.

I am keeping a pretty close record of my costs and so far at $110k total. Initial purchase was $15k. She is not a new boat, 1989, but at 49ft I dont know what you can get similar size and new bits for that sort of money.

The hull is sound and IMNSHO more robust than current production boats.

As someone said boats are not an investment, but to me she is all paid for so there us something to be said for that.

I went in assuming I would have to replace everything and so far not too far wrong. My thinking is if in doubt, change it out. Then I know its good, and should be for a while.

My feeling is if I have done it I know its good. If the previous owner is telling me Im not so sure.

Good luck.

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The original price for a Baba 35 of similar design, fully loaded back in 1985 was well under $110k (around $90k)... Why would anyone in their right mind pay the same price today for a 40 year old version?

He's not, he's only paying about $25k in 1985 dollars.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

He's not, he's only paying about $25k in 1985 dollars.

Your logic is flawed. By the time he adds back in the $50k-$60k needed for repairs, he’ll be somewhere back up near the original purchase price in 1985 dollars and at least 50% underwater on his 2019 investment.

41 year old boats don’t appreciate in value.