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Old 05-05-2018, 06:36   #46
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

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Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Who took this picture?

I spent a few years (8 patrols) on a Trident that is now in WA. Was in Kings Bay GA when I was on board.

-Chris
Off topic: Which boat were you on? When were you in? I work with that Trident Blue equipment (contractor side)! If you were a Nav-ET or quartermaster, there's a good chance we know some of the same people.
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Old 05-05-2018, 06:59   #47
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

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Video editing "photoshopping" tech is moving very fast now, AI assisted tools creating lipsync'd "deepfakes", realistic face-swapping in motion, disinformation / propaganda will soon be getting much harder to fight.
Photoshopping is about as real as you claiming nuclear submarines dived and surfaced in the Thames River.

LOL
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:11   #48
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

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Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Who took this picture?

I spent a few years (8 patrols) on a Trident that is now in WA. Was in Kings Bay GA when I was on board.

This pic is definitely not a Trident. All Tridents have sail plane control surfaces. As opposed to bow planes like 'fast attack' subs use.

US Navy wouldn't let us submerge until the water was 'deep'. We would run on the surface for many hours at 15+ knots before we ever submerged. Running into anything on a submarine is a multi hundred million dollar mistake.

These stories of submarines surfacing in shallow water are 'highly suspect'.

Regarding 'emergency blow' fast surfacing, it only looks cool in the movies to come shooting out of the water. People fail to realize that the momentum carries the sub back 300 - 400 feet deep thus being a 'bad idea' in a real emergency. Controlled up angle and 'bob' on the surface is the way to do it. I was qualified chief of the watch (COW) which is the one who throws the 'chicken switches' to port 400 psi air to open valves that allow 4500+ psi air into the ballast tanks. Ironically the air is already in the ballast tanks, just contained in a small area. One switch for forward and another one for aft tanks.

-Chris
That's just a pic I found on line under a "Trident" quick search. Maybe it's not. I just wanted to show the big bow wave curl/depression!

On an interesting note, I was sailing down Hood Canal once and you go right bast the Bangor Trident base when you do. They have a couple security boats to keep people away from being too close. When I was motoring along I was watching through binoculars. There was a cigarette style boat that came along and stopped right in front of one of the sub sheds. Here come the security boats working there way to the intruder. When they start getting close, the Cigarette takes off at high speed and runs away. Almost like a game they're playing.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:02   #49
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

We sailed into a brisk Southerly down the middle, tacking well away from the charted edges of the "no go" zones.
The guard boat at Bangor was zooming back and forth which reminded me of a barking dog behind a fence.
"Gosh guys, I'm not even close to you !"
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Old 06-05-2018, 16:11   #50
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

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Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2 View Post
Off topic: Which boat were you on? When were you in? I work with that Trident Blue equipment (contractor side)! If you were a Nav-ET or quartermaster, there's a good chance we know some of the same people.
USS Pennsylvania SSBN-735 Blue Crew 1991-1996. Machinist Mate E5 when I got out.

Was great friends with Dan Bellow. He's a QM and still in Kings Bay as COB on the Wyoming (IIRC).

Chris
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:13   #51
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

I have wondered about Kings bay.
It’s obviously a sub base, but I have always read that sub skippers are nervous in water that wasn’t hundreds of feet deep, and off the cost of Ga., that is a long ways out, so I’d assume they would have to run surfaced for 100 miles or so?
Not maybe the best way to be stealthy and not be seen?
I’m sure that a Satellite can see surfaced subs.
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:38   #52
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

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I have wondered about Kings bay.
It’s obviously a sub base, but I have always read that sub skippers are nervous in water that wasn’t hundreds of feet deep, and off the cost of Ga., that is a long ways out, so I’d assume they would have to run surfaced for 100 miles or so?
Not maybe the best way to be stealthy and not be seen?
I’m sure that a Satellite can see surfaced subs.
My recollection is we drove off the continental shelf before submerging. I can't imagine anything short of a war or imminent danger that would alter that plan.

Subs have been tracked in and out of the base for a long time. But once submerged the search area grows exponentially larger with each passing hour. We typically didn't go 'alert' for a few days minimum after submerging.

With a 5000-7000+ mile launch radius you don't have to be close to anything to cause large amounts of damage. A SALT (treaty) limited Trident has 2500 times the kiloton rating of the combined nukes dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Mk48 topedos were staple for a very long time as well. Set to explode under the ship to cause the keel to break and sink the vessel.

Tridents aren't very fast but they apparently get the job done.

If you look up videos of a launch you can get an idea of the distance the missile is going. If it zig-zags on the way up it's burning fuel since it's similar to a model rocket you might have played with as a kid (solid fuel). If it just heads off in the distance you know it's heading a long ways away.
Warheads are 'dropped' back to the ground to ensure they are harder to shoot down. Missile guidance is based upon the visual recognition of stars in the sky. I'm guessing they are very close to the edge of space. Multiple warheads per missile allows one missile to hit many targets or to dig a very deep hole for 'hard targets'. Much of the technology designed many decades ago. Imagine one missile dropping a warhead in every major city on the east coast of the USA. Multiply that by 24.

We were the first boat to get the D5 Trident missiles. I believe they are still used today and expected to be used for another few decades.

I'm not sure about today, but when I in, it only took 3 people to end the world as you know it. Sometimes I don't like to think about it.

-Chris
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Old 07-05-2018, 18:01   #53
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

"I’m sure that a Satellite can see surfaced subs."
Way beyond that. Aerial recon, whether it is aircraft or satellite, can see things in great detail. You can buy commercial imaging down to one-meter resolution, and six inch resolution was possible with non-classified film systems even 45 years ago. You couldn't read license plates but you sure could see every stripe in a parking lot. Or, you could look at a commercial jet at an airport gateway, and tell which windows had the curtains down.
So, submarines? Easy peasy. They leave big wakes, even when submerged. They create big thermal plumes from the reactor cooling. They make big magnetic distortions. And satellites with radar distance imaging can even pick up the bulge in the water created by a submerged sub, when there's nothing apparent to the eye. (Similar to the way they map ocean height distortions from local gravity changes.)
I expect that Lichtenstein, Sudan, Uzbekistan, and a few other nations don't have that grade of remote sensing in place, but for the US (so presumably Russia, China, and a few others) it is old declassified news. Getting offshore and well below a thermocline--and avoiding sonophone networks--has to make the skippers feel a lot more secure.
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Old 07-05-2018, 18:07   #54
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"I’m sure that a Satellite can see surfaced subs."
Way beyond that. Aerial recon, whether it is aircraft or satellite, can see things in great detail. You can buy commercial imaging down to one-meter resolution, and six inch resolution was possible with non-classified film systems even 45 years ago. You couldn't read license plates but you sure could see every stripe in a parking lot. Or, you could look at a commercial jet at an airport gateway, and tell which windows had the curtains down.
So, submarines? Easy peasy. They leave big wakes, even when submerged. They create big thermal plumes from the reactor cooling. They make big magnetic distortions. And satellites with radar distance imaging can even pick up the bulge in the water created by a submerged sub, when there's nothing apparent to the eye. (Similar to the way they map ocean height distortions from local gravity changes.)
I expect that Lichtenstein, Sudan, Uzbekistan, and a few other nations don't have that grade of remote sensing in place, but for the US (so presumably Russia, China, and a few others) it is old declassified news. Getting offshore and well below a thermocline--and avoiding sonophone networks--has to make the skippers feel a lot more secure.
That thermal layer was always the key depth to remain below. Apparently it prevented satellite technology from finding us. Ocean floor hydrophones were only used by the USA for decades but that has changed recently. Those have to be a concern.

Tridents use natural circulation (the big break through) to cool the reactor without turning on big noisy Reactor Coolant Pumps. Those weren't needed up to 17% power. Thus normally they were off as we drove around 4-5 knots. Jokingly said 4 knots to nowhere. Just needed to do a big loop that lasted 2 months.
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Old 07-05-2018, 19:17   #55
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

Yes, the Ohio boats are way ahead of the Polaris boats.

My boat was a 608 class second generation FBM boat. 608's were the first class to be specifically designed to be SSBN's and carried 16 Polaris A2 missiles.

I came aboard during her first overhaul and we kept the A2's.

With a 1500 mile range we had to get pretty far East in the Med to target Moscow.

I found out later that we had basically zip code accuracy so were considered third strike boats. If there had been a nuclear exchange we would have likely been used after against large maneuvering armies.

At the same time the 616, 627 and 640 class boats were already built carrying Polaris A3 2500 range missiles, then the C3 Posiden missile and later the first generation D4 Trident birds.

There were 41 Polaris boats in 5 classes aka the 41 for Freedom boats.
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Old 07-05-2018, 20:16   #56
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

Sorry to have missed the days when submarines transited Mare Island Strait. They would have been surfaced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_I...Naval_Shipyard
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Old 07-05-2018, 21:21   #57
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Re: Finding myself in the path of a Submarine that was not “there” a minute ago.

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Sorry to have missed the days when submarines transited Mare Island Strait. They would have been surfaced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_I...Naval_Shipyard
Unlike the boats in the CT Thames river?

LOL

Where did John get to?

Would like to hear more about his adventures on the girls rowing team.
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