Feedback on a software idea

[19thol]

I'm in.

[jacktheflyer]

Great idea. However it has been discussed a few times before. Every one I have tried is too complex or too expensive. I have a background in Computerised Maintenance Management Systems (CMMS) and recognise the parts database is a refinement that is included in high end systems and would be very useful to the user in our situation. However as in the larger databases there is a question of effort versus reward or usefulness when building the program. What is also not well recognised is that a CMMS is about more than predicting when you need to do an oil change. Every maintenance activity needs to be recorded so when you've changed out that bilge pump once a year for 6 yrs you can see a trend and look for a common cause.
Personally i would love to have a parts inventory and a system that is economical and am not opposed to a small fee.

[Lewis Lumley]

Your concept as you describe it is appealing, I think particularly for larger boats with many systems. But in your description you don't speak to the effort required to load the database with a range of equipment and documentation sufficient to ensure that enough users are adequately rewarded for accessing or contributing to it, nor do you address the ongoing work required to keep it relevant, accurate and up-to-date -- even assuming a 'community' forms around it and contributes data.

In the mid 2000s I was an early participant in a similar venture to support a community of owners of a single-engine four-seat aircraft model manufactured in the 1950s, with about 3500 still flying. The venture got off the ground because its originator was very knowledgeable in the relevant equipment, systems, issues, sources, suppliers, alternatives and etc. He was also retired and able to spend the months required to assemble and validate the database for that one aircraft model. He kept it going for about two years, and the response from the owner community was positive and their contributions (in the form of comments, experiences and suggestions) substantial, but the effort to keep it current and accurate eventually led him to give it up. Had the aircraft maker been around and still in business, he might have persuaded them to take over his database in the interest of servicing their customers, but the company was long gone.

I should point out that mine isn't a perfect comparison. For one thing, there are perhaps some actual risks, and certainly some legal risks in making public claims and recommendations in the aviation sector, and that made accuracy important. Those requirements probably don't exist to the same degree in the realm of sailing. On the other hand, the variety of sailboats, systems and equipment is probably far greater, and the number of users of any particular combination of brands far smaller (with exceptions like Yanmar engines) than in my aircraft comparison. For a sailor, that will reduce his or her likelihood of finding relevant information and motivation to contribute.

[Kamen]

I like the idea, especially the crowdsourcing angle. Make that as low-friction as possible.

One difficulty with crowdsourcing is curation. How do you prevent spammers from flooding the content with garbage?

[Captain Puget]

Interesting idea.

In trying to also listen to some of the comments about local access to data when the cloud is not available; a suggestion (that will allow you to monetize a little too) - allow local storage of a “vessel profile” with all manuals selected for a small fee.

Good luck, I like the idea and can see some more possibilities to maintain data integrity and backup too 😀

[Stu Jackson]

I think your comparison is quite valid.

I am one of a handful of administrators for our C34 website. The site has been active and growing for more than 25 years. In addition to our original static pages, we added a forum like this one in the early 2000s.

We are concerned with ONE boat, made by ONE manufacturer, who built and sold it from 1986 to 2007 or 2009. There were 1,801 hulls built.

Only two significant changes were made by the factory in all those years. In the mid-90s they modified the topsides of the boat by widening the cockpit and including as walk through transom. The other change was from the original M25 & M25XP engines to the four cylinder M30 & M35 engines. That was it.

But the variety of things folks have done is quite remarkable.

But the recurring requests we used to get about filter equivalents, for example, we thought would stop.

They didn't. Until we taught our respondents to learn how to search!

My point being is that after 23 years of being active on that ONE website for ONE boat has taught me that the idea of what is being proposed is a fool's errand, however good the intentions. And for sure I know it was proposed as a good thing.

In this case, other than wasted time, there is no risk, but no reward either, and not financial. It is simply too big an effort, regardless of how well intentioned it may be.

But have at it. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Lewis Lumley

Your concept as you describe it is appealing, I think particularly for larger boats with many systems. But in your description you don't speak to the effort required to load the database with a range of equipment and documentation sufficient to ensure that enough users are adequately rewarded for accessing or contributing to it, nor do you address the ongoing work required to keep it relevant, accurate and up-to-date -- even assuming a 'community' forms around it and contributes data.

In the mid 2000s I was an early participant in a similar venture to support a community of owners of a single-engine four-seat aircraft model manufactured in the 1950s, with about 3500 still flying. The venture got off the ground because its originator was very knowledgeable in the relevant equipment, systems, issues, sources, suppliers, alternatives and etc. He was also retired and able to spend the months required to assemble and validate the database for that one aircraft model. He kept it going for about two years, and the response from the owner community was positive and their contributions (in the form of comments, experiences and suggestions) substantial, but the effort to keep it current and accurate eventually led him to give it up. Had the aircraft maker been around and still in business, he might have persuaded them to take over his database in the interest of servicing their customers, but the company was long gone.

I should point out that mine isn't a perfect comparison. For one thing, there are perhaps some actual risks, and certainly some legal risks in making public claims and recommendations in the aviation sector, and that made accuracy important. Those requirements probably don't exist to the same degree in the realm of sailing. On the other hand, the variety of sailboats, systems and equipment is probably far greater, and the number of users of any particular combination of brands far smaller (with exceptions like Yanmar engines) than in my aircraft comparison. For a sailor, that will reduce his or her likelihood of finding relevant information and motivation to contribute.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by psk125

Having to access your computer to get information on maintenance items means your boat will likely need to be plugged in at a slip. If you can afford a slip, you are probably paying someone else to do the maintenance, so don't need the information. Making the system 'phone-friendly' might help, but phone screens are not the best size to read directions from or to see diagrams. It might be worth determining your target market in better detail. It's not simply 'boat owners'. It's boat owners who do their own maintenance and who don't already have a system in place that works for them. Might not be a huge market.

Disagree with several points. Most of us do keep boats in slips when not cruising, but after paying for the slip it makes a lot of sense for many of us (I'd guess >80%) to do minor maintenance and repair. In my case I simply don't need, want or trust lots of others on my boat to do simple maintenance. And pros will usually use the original parts at high cost, not paying attention to shopping around for less expensive replacements.

I nearly always have internet access when cruising, even in remote ports I usually can get data via the local cellphone networks. Set phone up as Wifi hotspot. It's almost a necessity now that ports will need advance notice of arrivals and you need to know all the new protocols, so you need to do lots of research before weighing anchor these days.

I don't know if OP was looking for a "market" in the sense of starting a money-making enterprise. At least at the start, these software adventures seem like they are a hobby, not a business venture, and that's the right attitude otherwise it will never happen. I have spent countless hours searching on-line for some items and would not mind paying a small fee for access to a database that could save some time. As for maintenance reminders, I probably am less interested. That's why I own a boat and not an airplane.

I think its an admirable goal, and would be interesting in contributing the meager lists of discounted parts and sources I've found over the years.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Shoalbay

Only obliquely related, but...

An app I would find useful would involve speech recognition and cataloging of reminders.

You would activate voice recording on your phone and say things like,

• "boat oil change fifteen June 2021"

• "car tire rotate one November 2022"

• "Lulubelle birthday six June 1966"

• "Want metric tap set".



The voice note would be parsed into text and stuck into the calendar of the phone and into a spreadsheet according to category like one sheet for Boat maintenance, etc. Reminders would be sent via emails/text as they come due.

That part is already available via your phone

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Kamen

I like the idea, especially the crowdsourcing angle. Make that as low-friction as possible.

One difficulty with crowdsourcing is curation. How do you prevent spammers from flooding the content with garbage?

The simplest way is:

• Require sign ups from contributors
• Contributors are required to read and agree to a set of guidelines and rules about contributions
• The first, say, 10 contributions from a new signup are all reviewed before acceptance and posting
• Like with CF, other members can report improper posts or actions

[ttcbj]

FYI, Xquisite catamarans include an on-board maintenance management system as part of the purchase. The owner of the company talks about it in a youtube video he appears in, I think this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ut27ptBb4

They market it as:

A. Helping you keep up with maintenance on the boat.
B. Helping them service your boat if you opt for their ~$15k/year maintenance program.
C. Increasing the resale value of the boat by providing a rigorous record of maintenance.

It seems like you are proposing a direct to consumer sales model, but the possibility of a sales model through manufacturers might represent either an opportunity or a long-term threat. In the event that people prove willing to pay for maintenance programs tied to electronic record keeping (seems dubious?), I imagine manufactures would be enthusiastic about the recurring revenue stream.

Certainly with other expensive equipment (construction and farm machinery) there has been a move towards the equipment reporting diagnostics back to the manufacturer, both for proactive maintenance and for diagnosing problems.

[EXTangen]

Expand this tool: pool the resources of the forum and leverage the resulting buying power to increase quality and decrease costs.

For example, if I knew in the fall that my batteries would need to be replaced in the spring, and that information was combined with 1000 other cruisers with a similar requirement, then bids could go out to battery suppliers with the knowledge that there were 1001 needed, and they were all going to be bought by select suppliers based on historical performance as documented in the forum.

The suppliers win because they get advanced order information, and a quality reputation.
The consumers win because the quality and price are constantly improving.

We all have experience with some products and services, and we like to share what we know. Why not use that to make the future of cruising better?

[Pdemajo]

I like the idea. It would be useful if you could also upload the photo of the bills paid to suppliers, yards, etc. And index them....i always end up with so many papers and it takes ages to find what i had bought, from where, and how much did i pay for it..........let us know when its up and running...

[SVPP]

Like assetDNA from www.relegen.com? Their Voyage Management System can be used with your mobile phone and I think now even enables you to use barcodes and/or RFID tags on equipment. We used it for years - amazing system.

[surazo]

Nice idea . Doesn't matter if you integrated parts of others programs or not .It's a work that all the sailors have when they need to do the maintenance or repair .Normally done bu us and seeking the cheapest cost at better quality as posible plus spares .An integrated system based in your pc aboard is fantastic .
Normally I have all the ocean voyages trip require and is a lot because all is duplicated and for my profession I use the concept Redundancy .Please let me know in which things I can collaborate .Thanks

[Davo666]

BIM (Building Information Modelling) for boats. Ideally would include original owner's manuals and details of all maintenance, upgrades etc. done to each registered boat.