Falling in a vessel at a boat show

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Madehn

JMHO. FIRST I wish you the best health wise. Quick recovery! I would like to think that between your personal health insurance and their liability insurance your medical bills will be handled. As for pain and suffering etc. sorry you made a lot of decisions here and certainly at least share in any responsibility. Why go down a dark stairway? Why even go on a boat that you believe shortcuts safety for the sake of saving dollars? Bad things sometimes happen and sometimes people pay consequences for decisions they make. Again I hope you heal well and as painlessly as possible but you also need to accept that you are a decision making adult who bears consequences both positive and negative for your decisions. Not a popular viewpoint in today’s “victim world” but is my opinion. Again all that being said you have two ways to go here. One focus on healing and getting well by focusing on care. Two. Focus and put some effort into who else you can blame. I know the second is tempting but for your own sake I would encourage you to focus on the first route. Good luck with your recuperation Focus on getting the very best medical care possible as quickly as possible and follow Marks advice.

Thanks for your well wishes. While I am refraining from further discussion about what I should do. I think the blaming the victim is so unjust. Has been and remains unfair. If you slipt on a wet floor that didn't have a warning sign and you ended up with a lifetime disability, how would you feel if you were told by the blaim the victim crowd it was your fault for not looking down. Who goes around looking down all the time. The expectation is that a floor is safe to walk on. Reading the link by a poster on here about a case where a boat builder was sued for a fall at a show, the same blame the victim arguments were used by the defense attorney. The judge didn't buy it as a matter of law and rejected their motion for dismissal. I am not a lawyer. Just someone is in unbelievable pain and upset that someone else's negligence and lack of care could well cause me awful long term damage. �� I hope not and that I will have a speedy recovery. Truth is I am scared after being told I have multiple fractures in my spine. I think this would scare anyone.

[contrail]

A couple of points for the OP: you stridently state you will not identify the manufacturer, but then you have provided us just enough information that a very cursory read "between the lines" tells us exactly who that manufacturer is. Secondly, over many years, "in the field", as it were, I have observed cruisers and their behavior very carefully, trying to find what successful ones have in common and what unsuccessful (or unhappy) ones don't. Although I based my analysis on folks in the real world, there are examples of both on CF, as might be expected. I sincerely hope you have a speedy recovery and are able to have a fruitful and enjoyable retirement, but if cruising is excluded, you may find yourself better off.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

If you slipt on a wet floor that didn't have a warning sign and you ended up with a lifetime disability, how would you feel if you were told by the blaim the victim crowd it was your fault for not looking down. Who goes around looking down all the time. The expectation is that a floor is safe to walk on.

Looks like this has turned into a discussion on personal responsibility.

If I slip on a floor it’s my fault. Try not to, outdoors in winter I wear boots, sometimes with crampons.

Our vehicles have snow tires so the magic voodoo doesn’t throw us into guardrails and other cars.

If a gun goes off in my hand and injures someone there is ONE person responsible. Not the manufacturer, not the ammo, not Alec Baldwin. ME.

If I get my hand into a snowblower or under a lawnmower, may the lord take it off and teach me a lesson.

When I’ve run aground, blame not the wind or magnetic variation nor OpenCPN, blame me.

If my anchor should ever drag, it’s my fault.

I was at a waterfront bar in Turkey and headed to the head down a flight of marble stairs. As I hit the last step my head hit the edge of the ceiling above and split it like a melon. Blood poured. The stairs and the ceiling were not parallel, closing at the end. The edge of the ceiling at the last step was raw 90 degree marble. In USA this would have been a sure win lawsuit. But I have binocular vision with human eyes capable of discerning angles to less than a degree. I was at fault for being inattentive.

I have control of but one variable amongst the multitudes, I accept that one variable is me, and it alone is my responsibility.

[PortHoleDiver]

Hope you heal up. Let us know how this goes for you in the pursuit of your monetary gain.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Thanks for your well wishes. While I am refraining from further discussion about what I should do. I think the blaming the victim is so unjust. Has been and remains unfair. If you slipt on a wet floor that didn't have a warning sign and you ended up with a lifetime disability, how would you feel if you were told by the blaim the victim crowd it was your fault for not looking down. Who goes around looking down all the time. The expectation is that a floor is safe to walk on. Reading the link by a poster on here about a case where a boat builder was sued for a fall at a show, the same blame the victim arguments were used by the defense attorney. The judge didn't buy it as a matter of law and rejected their motion for dismissal. I am not a lawyer. Just someone is in unbelievable pain and upset that someone else's negligence and lack of care could well cause me awful long term damage. �� I hope not and that I will have a speedy recovery. Truth is I am scared after being told I have multiple fractures in my spine. I think this would scare anyone.

If you are on a boat, you need a keen sense of awareness. You need to look down, up, and all around, constantly, as you have learned, most painfully. And, yes, I do go around looking down constantly, having grown up in a country with many uneven surfaces.



Here is a true, if ironic story: At one time, I lived and worked in Mexico. We needed one of my Mexican colleagues to drive up to the US to pick up an item, and drive back. He was afraid that his English would not be sufficient and that everything would be too complex. His immediate supervisor, also Mexican, told him "Don't worry, you will not have a problem. The US is made for stupid people! They even put up signs telling you that a floor is wet." Apologies to all my fellow Americans, but it IS food for thought.

[Island Time O25]

Just get at least 2 or 3 legal opinions from competent attorneys. Each consultation will be free anyway. Doesn't make sense to ask general questions here on CF as many here seem to be very unfriendly to accident victims and to the concept of compensation for injuries from responsible parties. No guarantee that you have an easily winnable case but there is no harm or downside to at the least seeking legal opinions.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by PortHoleDiver

Hope you heal up. Let us know how this goes for you in the pursuit of your monetary gain.

I'm not in pursuit of monetary gain. I've been told that my medical providers expect and require I pay or I recover from the person who caused this. I am not looking for a windfall. I just proposed the hyperthetical of how much the loss of your dream for your retirement years is worth. I hope that I recover and I will be out on the water soon. But I am truly scared. Please don't ask why. I have expressed my views while under awful pain. I'm not asking for sympathy. Thank you everyone who has offered me good wishes.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by contrail

If you are on a boat, you need a keen sense of awareness. You need to look down, up, and all around, constantly, as you have learned, most painfully. And, yes, I do go around looking down constantly, having grown up in a country with many uneven surfaces.



Here is a true, if ironic story: At one time, I lived and worked in Mexico. We needed one of my Mexican colleagues to drive up to the US to pick up an item, and drive back. He was afraid that his English would not be sufficient and that everything would be too complex. His immediate supervisor, also Mexican, told him "Don't worry, you will not have a problem. The US is made for stupid people! They even put up signs telling you that a floor is wet." Apologies to all my fellow Americans, but it IS food for thought.

Your comment is to be expected from someone in the boat service industry. Others were right. I should have said nothing here. There are so many biased people who might now be worried about their own liability when they invite people aboard their boats. Not to say the self-interest of people in the boat business.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by contrail

If you are on a boat, you need a keen sense of awareness. You need to look down, up, and all around, constantly, as you have learned, most painfully. And, yes, I do go around looking down constantly, having grown up in a country with many uneven surfaces.



Here is a true, if ironic story: At one time, I lived and worked in Mexico. We needed one of my Mexican colleagues to drive up to the US to pick up an item, and drive back. He was afraid that his English would not be sufficient and that everything would be too complex. His immediate supervisor, also Mexican, told him "Don't worry, you will not have a problem. The US is made for stupid people! They even put up signs telling you that a floor is wet." Apologies to all my fellow Americans, but it IS food for thought.

Some years back I was at a boat show with a friend who happened to be a naval architect and a boatbuilder with decades of hands on experience (300 boats 15' to 40' mostly). First boat we climbed on was a mass produced Huntavariadehler or some such. Inside cabinetry was "IKEA quality" - particleboard, cheap laminates, etc. But the most concerning issue, in addition to the total lack of hands holds, were the sharp angles of all corners, doors, table, etc. Basically if that boat rolls at sea anyone below will be in a dryer mode getting hurt from sharp corners. This is clearly an inherent design deficiency and no amount of carefulness will protect the crew and passengers.

Not sure if that lack of safer design rises to negligence level in itself but hopefully companies will be forced to execute safer designs when forced to do so by the law suits. Unsafe design leads to injuries. Injuries lead to law suits. And law suits lead to rising insurance premiums, etc. So we as consumers of the product are forced to pay twice. Once with having a subpar designed product and second time with having to pay higher insurance premiums for all similar products, even the well designed ones.

And almost forgot the punchline. My boatbuilder friend in jest said that whoever designed and put together that cabinetry should be prohibited from working in marine industry in any capacity. The next boat we went on was a IP 38 for almost half a mil (this was 12-15 years ago). It did not come with a windlass for that price and inside of lazarette hatches was sharp fiberglass. He was really down on that brand for those two issues. The cabin design was also weird. But that's a matter of personal taste.

[donradcliffe]

Sorry to hear about your accident, and hope that you recover enough mobility to live your dream.

One thing I remember about New Zealand was when I was there in the 1990's they did not permit any personal injury lawsuits because they were unnecessary. Their medical system would pay for all treatments, so there was no need to sue.

My first jury duty concerned a woman who stepped in a knothole on the timbered public wharf and injured her knee. She had a lawyer who was dumb enough to allow her to wear her large diamonds to the trial, but was smart enough to make me his first peremptory challenge. On of my sailing friends ended up on the jury, and I asked him how it turned out. He said that after 5 days of testimony the jury didn't give her a penny.

[catsketcher]

The thing I love about sailing offshore is personal responsibility. I love the fact that when I am on my boat, or any other boat that I choose to be out on, I get to be free to do what I want out there. I certainly don't want too many people being worried about being sued by me. No one is making me sail on any boat I don't want to. I can choose what I want to do.

I can't for the life of me work out how someone can be a good sailor if they can't work out how to walk around a boat properly in the calmest of possible situations. How will they do when offshore, in nasty conditions? What about when the boat is rocking and they need to furl the main? Pulling up the anchor in a seaway? Getting into a marina in a beam on blow? As sailors we need to be able to assess risks at all times and work these out for ourselves.

Being a good sailor also means being responsible for oneself and not looking for other to blame when bad things happen. I find the idea of the OP wanting someone else to pay medical expenses, when you always need to insure that you can't afford to lose, strange.

Sadly it makes me less likely to do the right thing. To jump on board a dragging boat to ease out more chain, or to drag a boat with a broken mooring in to another mooring, or to tow a fellow sailor with trouble in to safety. If people suing each other is alright, then I am less likely to be a helpful fellow sailor. Or I might just avoid the US.

[double u]

...this sort of thing...

[LittleWing77]

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[ACW]

Sometimes the blame is not someone else’s fault. Sometimes it is just your own fault. Whilst the UK does not quite have the same level of litigation as America, unfortunately it is increasing as people want cash for what is often their own error. You may win. I hope you don’t. We should accept when we made a mistake and leave it at that.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ACW

Sometimes the blame is not someone else’s fault. Sometimes it is just your own fault. Whilst the UK does not quite have the same level of litigation as America, unfortunately it is increasing as people want cash for what is often their own error. You may win. I hope you don’t. We should accept when we made a mistake and leave it at that.

There's people in the UK who make good money out of whiplash claims, the blame is always on the car behind in a shunt so an engineered rear ender is a lucrative stunt easily achieved and hard to prove.