Euro Vs US Shore Power

[MarkBDickens]

I am in process of looking to purchase a cruiser to sail extensively, maybe round the world, but certainly in the Med and Caribbean. My question is this: is it better (and why ) to purchase a 220V or 120V electrical system vessel, or step up and convert to or purchase dual power?

[psk125]

There are converters and plugs that can be used to accommodate the two systems. Getting 220v from a 110 system calls for using two supply plugs, which might not be available (or could cost you) at crowded marinas.

[DeValency]

Converters and plugs are a secondary matter here;

The shore power is not a significant issues when purchasing a boat, especially if planning international travel. - UNLESS there are systems working on the shore power only, like A/C - these cannot be converted or switched and would normally work on 115 or 230VAC.

Some marinas in the Caribbean has both voltages.

Make sure your battery charger is automatically working on 115-240VAC. Victron or Mastervolt. If not, upgrading isn't too expensive.

You can add an inverter to support the AC voltage you don't get, for small appliances, rated below the inverter output. I have both 240VAC and 115VAC inverters.

Other than that, all systems should work on 12 or 24VDC but again, make sure it is indeed the case.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by MarkBDickens

I am in process of looking to purchase a cruiser to sail extensively, maybe round the world, but certainly in the Med and Caribbean. My question is this: is it better (and why ) to purchase a 220V or 120V electrical system vessel, or step up and convert to or purchase dual power?

I would resolve that and many more electrical issues by installing an isolation transformer

https://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/mag...ansformers.asp

https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/wired-world/

[MarkBDickens]

Ok, thanks for the input. But what about choice of power system? To me this is about the primary power systems globally - ie are there predominantly 230 supply systems around the world or 120? And, is this question even relevant?

From responses so far it seems to be a minor issue? So all else being equal (like never) it does not matter whether buying in the us or Europe? Just look for best boat for budget and purpose?

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by MarkBDickens

Ok, thanks for the input. But what about choice of power system? To me this is about the primary power systems globally - ie are there predominantly 230 supply systems around the world or 120? And, is this question even relevant?
From responses so far it seems to be a minor issue? So all else being equal (like never) it does not matter whether buying in the us or Europe? Just look for best boat for budget and purpose?

Yes, it seems to be a minor issue.

A boat that is shorepower-dependent and located in Europe will likely be wired for 240 V, and won't be able to cross to North America, because it can't be away from shorepower for long.

A boat that is shorepower-dependent and located in North America will likely be wired for 120 V, and won't be able to cross to Europe or Asia, because it can't be away from shorepower for long.

A boat that is capable of travelling between continents will have all its critical systems wired to run off 12 V or 24 V DC, and will happily exist free of shorepower for an indefinite period. Making it capable of using either shorepower voltage is mostly just a matter of installing better battery chargers.

You buy your AC gadgets to match the boat's AC system voltage, and then if you really need to use them directly from shorepower of a different voltage (as opposed to using shorepower for battery charging only, and running all onboard AC loads from inverters), you fit a step-up / step-down isolation transformer.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by MarkBDickens

Ok, thanks for the input. But what about choice of power system? To me this is about the primary power systems globally - ie are there predominantly 230 supply systems around the world or 120? And, is this question even relevant?

From responses so far it seems to be a minor issue? So all else being equal (like never) it does not matter whether buying in the us or Europe? Just look for best boat for budget and purpose?

Most of the world is working on 230VAC but this isn’t that important as your boat is using mainly (or only) 12-24VDC. As I wrote earlier the shore power charger should be the model that auto switch between 115-230VAC.

My boat is European (Dutch made) with an original 230VAC shore power setup etc. I didn’t need to change anything when arriving to the US, as all my systems operates on 12VDC except the espresso machine that I connect to the 230VAC inverter.

Even the original 230VAC water heater works ok (just a bit slow) with 115VAC but I rarely use the shore power fir it as the engine warms the water in about 15 min, but at some point I will simply replace the water heater element to 115VAC.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by MarkBDickens

I am in process of looking to purchase a cruiser to sail extensively, maybe round the world, but certainly in the Med and Caribbean. My question is this: is it better (and why ) to purchase a 220V or 120V electrical system vessel, or step up and convert to or purchase dual power?

Hi Mark


120v in most of the Americas and Japan
220v most other places


Really the main thing is that if your boat is wired for 220v you have to purchase 220v appliances. It is nearly impossible to buy 220v household appliances (particularly kitchen appliances and power tools/cordless tool chargers) in the USA, and it is nearly impossible to buy 120v household appliances in Europe.


It is unusual for boats to divide their time between the Med and the Caribbean but if that is what you do then either electrical system will work out OK. In either case you would want to plan ahead and get whatever microwaves, blenders, etc., where compatible power is used.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by MarkBDickens

Ok, thanks for the input. But what about choice of power system? To me this is about the primary power systems globally - ie are there predominantly 230 supply systems

Using an isolation transformer, u set to take in 240 and feed out either 240 or 120, your choice. Etc Some convert automatically, some require u to set jumpers, and some isolation transformers also provide boost power, when dockside power fluctuates. They just dont convert phase or frequency but voltage they handle fine. So if ur running electronics that require only either 50 or 60 hz ie microwave ovens? then u need a pure sinewave inverter. If youre going to be using dock power for extemded periods, an isolation transformer is pretty much required. More marinas are acctually requiring them.

[DeValency]

Isolation transformer is usually 1:1 and this can keep the size and weight reasonable. Once you want to get an conversion transformer 1:2 or 2:1 things start to become complicated and the transformer size will be huge - for 30A you’ll need 7.2Kw transformer.... this isn’t practical.

Even in the Caribbean - a common route for many Americans, there are popular islands; all the French and Dutch islands, St Lucia and the Grenadins are running on 230VAC.

When I brought the boat to the US I gave the 230V appliances I had (microwave, portable a/c) to locals. I kept the 230V power tools as they can run from my pure sinus inverter (12VDC to 230AC). Most to all cordless tools chargers (I use Makita 18V tools almost exclusively) are multi-voltage 90-240VAC, as well as 5VDC USB chargers and even found LED 115-230VAC bulbs as my boat had a dual interior lighting circuits 12VDC and shore power.

The diesel generator I have has output of 240VAC and 12VDC. It wouldn’t make sense to replace it as again I can run 240AC on board.

When buying a used boat there are way more important items to look at than the shore power unless if the boat is loaded with built in heavy shore power based devices, such as a/c systems. A replacement may be very expensive.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by DeValency

Isolation transformer is usually 1:1 and this can keep the size and weight reasonable. Once you want to get an conversion transformer 1:2 or 2:1 things start to become complicated and the transformer size will be huge - for 30A you’ll need 7.2Kw transformer.... this isn’t practical.

That simply isn't true. Isolation transformers have nearly the same size and weight whether they are 1:1 or have taps to allow 1:2 and 2:1 operation. The KVA rating requirement is the same regardless of the input voltage. If you have, for example, a boat that is wired for 220v 16a shore power, you would need a 3.5 KVA isolation transformer regardless of whether the input power is 220v 16a or 120v 30a.


A boat that is wired for US-standard 120v 30a would also use a 3.5 KVA isolation transformer, regardless of whether the input power is 220v 16a or 120v 30a.



7.2 KVA transformers are useful for the very few boats that are wired for 220v 32a or for 120v 50a.

Most to all cordless tools chargers (I use Makita 18V tools almost exclusively) are multi-voltage 90-240VAC

It varies by manufacturer and possibly by charger. I have, for example, several chargers for my Milwaukee tools, and they are 120v only. Milwaukee does make 220v chargers, but they are separate products and are difficult to purchase in the USA.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Both the Victron and Charles brand isolation transformers allow voltage conversion as a standard feature. There are other brands but thise twonare most often found on boats in the US at least. (The Charles is heavier than the Victron becauae they use a slightly different technology)

[sailormed]

If you modify a 120V installation to 220V you don’t have to redraw all the 120 V cables. The other way you will have to as the cables are undersized.

[Matt Johnson]

If you have the choice, and you're predominantly staying outside the US, then pick 230v.

Our last two boats have been 110v, but we spend most of our time in the land of 230v. When your coffee maker or Shop Vac fail, you have a few choices available - simple solution is to do without; smart/expensive option is to add a second inverter and plugs for 230v; my stubborn solution is to import the appliances from the US. Not an end of the world situation, and we survived just fine, but it is inconvenient.

We're in the process of building a new boat, and even though we're building in the US, we're most likely wiring it for 230v from the start (if we build to CE). I'd rather invest the time/money now to setup the boat up for the areas we are going to cruise, rather than deal with the issue later on when we are supposed to be enjoying ourselves.... chasing down a replacement vacuum in Norway isn't high on my list of things I'd like to repeat.

Matt

[CarlF]

I would wire it for where you expect to someday sell it.

Isolation transformers are a good solution to voltage but the big ones are expensive. An alternate idea is to install a 2nd shore power inlet for the “other” power standard and have it go only to a large battery charger.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned frequency. US is 60hz and Europe 50hz. While there are several good ways to convert voltage the same is not true of converting frequency.

Anything with an AC motor cares about frequency. But where this usually becomes a problem is if you want air conditioners (or reverse cycle heat). These usually run on only one frequency and will be damaged if you try to use the other (even if the voltage is right). I know some people who got away with it despite the manufacturer’s warnings to the contrary.