Emergency Life Raft Recommendations

[EllesBelles]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Forget the idea of bringing the life raft back on a plane, that won't work.

Or will it? Does anyone know if these are allowed on airlines?

Viking from whom we bought our original life raft just shipped us a new replacement one by air from California to New Zealand (original one turned out to have holes in it when it was opened for recertifying). Viking said it COULD be shipped by air, including the canister, “at the discretion of the captain of the plane”. I noted that the airline was China Airlines - and the liferaft went from LAX to China, then to Auckland, but it did go by air and it did make it.

[hellosailor]

This begs for the question of how and why a Viking life raft was made and shipped out with holes in it. Or how the holes got there. And whether that would trigger a mandatory reinspection of them all.

[EllesBelles]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

This begs for the question of how and why a Viking life raft was made and shipped out with holes in it. Or how the holes got there. And whether that would trigger a mandatory reinspection of them all.

Viking is a Danish company. We bought the liferaft from the US distributor directly after checking out liferaft at the October boat show">Annapolis Boat Show and ordering the raft there. It was shipped to us directly from Viking USA in its hard shell case, and was mounted on the back of our catamaran ever since until we took it down to bring it in for recertification, which as you probably know has to be done every three years.

We had it recertified by the Viking authorized company in New Zealand (they only sell and service Viking). They were the ones who discovered the two leaks in the upper of the two rings that keep the raft afloat. We had asked to be present when the raft was inflated. We intended our oversight to be so we could learn more about our raft since the model we purchased wasn’t the exact one we saw at the Boat Show, and have some special items like a small desalination device got packed inside the liferaft for the next three years. So we and the recertifying company saw the leaks at the same time.

I have to say, both the recertifying company and the US Viking representative handled everything very professionally. They stood by the product and replaced it with a new, identical raft at no cost to us (and the shipping along was expensive - I suggested they replace it with one from closer to NZ but air shipping a new one from the US is how they wanted to handle it - going back to the liferaft on the airplane question which is what I answered and why I mentioned my liferaft situation here in the first place.

Viking said what happened with our raft is something they’ve never seen before. The only times a raft is inflated are for recertifying or deployment in an emergency of course.

We were told that Denmark was informed about our liferaft and they have the paperwork that was inside our raft (from which I think they know by whom and where it was packed) so I certainly hope they follow up and check at least all the other rafts packed close in time to ours.

We were so lucky - we sailed across the Atlantic twice, and all the way across the Pacific to New Zealand and thankfully never needed the liferaft with the holds in it. Because of where the holes were, had we had to use the raft, someone would have had to go outside the raft, holding on to the one rope for such emergencies - in goodness knows what consditions - and around to the middle back of side of the raft to try to patch them. Looking at what would have been necessary as the life raft sat semi-inflated on the floor of the Auckland factor, it was chilling to realize how lucky we were that we hadn’t had to rely on it.

[hellosailor]

Ah, that sounds more like two(?) fittings or seams weren't sealed properly? Not "holes in the raft" as such. I still would have thought the Viking, who have a good name, would have a quality control program that actually inflated or at least inspected the rafts well enough to make sure nothing like that could slip through. I wonder if there are any makers who expressly inflate and test all rafts before shipping them out?

As the price of goods normally varies with each geographic franchise (i.e. Viking-US) and the franchisee has set their own warranty as part of their pricing, I'm not really surprised that Viking-US would want to replace it directly. No matter where the replacement comes from, another raft still has to move from the US to there, to balance the books, yes?

The airlines are generally good about transporting things like life rafts. There are some IATA and UN regulations calling for "life saving equipment" to be allowed in the cabin and in checked baggage, so they are pretty much just following protocol on that. Even if that includes hazmat procedures if there are pyros involved.

So much for relying on a brand name.

[Exile]

I have an older canister-type liferaft that is stowed in a cradle on deck. Since it's getting long in the tooth and is expensive to service, I recently started looking at the valise-type rafts for their often lower cost and compactness. To my surprise, I learned that whatever they are packed in is not designed to be UV-resistant nor watertight, so they are intended for below decks storage only. This seemed rather incongruous to me, i.e. the prospect of trying to heave a heavy valise up the companionway steps and out on deck in potentially difficult conditions. Then there's the problem of finding space for below decks stowage. Then I thought about having a sunbrella cover made and stowing it up on deck, but that may interfere with deployment.

Anyone have any wisdom or experience to impart with regard to the valise-style rafts?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Exile

Anyone have any wisdom or experience to impart with regard to the valise-style rafts?

I guess it depends on the size of the valise raft. Our 4 man is 28kgs so similar to a sail bag or Honda 20i with fuel. I don't have a problem either lifting it from the cockpit locker when on board or from down below the saloon. Be different for an 8 man raft though.

How big do you need?

Pete

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I guess it depends on the size of the valise raft. Our 4 man is 28kgs so similar to a sail bag or Honda 20i with fuel. I don't have a problem either lifting it from the cockpit locker when on board or from down below the saloon. Be different for an 8 man raft though.

How big do you need?

Pete

My aging Givens (no longer mfg) is a 6-man but I've never done an offshore passage with more than 4 total and probably never will. After reading comments in a recent thread about the risks of oversizing, I may be inclined to go with a 4-person raft this time. Good to know they're not all that heavy, thanks.

A watertight cockpit locker seems ideal for a valise raft, but unfortunately my boat does not have those. There are 3 lazarettes but only the fwd one could potentially offer a large enough space. I think it would have to be stowed somewhere in the cabin which would present a challenge keeping it secure and out of the way.

It just seemed odd to me that there are none available which are UV-resistant and watertight, and so could safely be stored on deck, but perhaps that's unrealistic. My research has hardly been exhaustive so maybe it's out there.

[Franziska]

The container rafts are watertight and UV safe.

Some of valise rafts are not. Still a custom water/UV cover with breaking points or velcro might solve this to some degree.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Franziska

The container rafts are watertight and UV safe.

Some of valise rafts are not. Still a custom water/UV cover with breaking points or velcro might solve this to some degree.

Yes, my concerns over watertight/RV pertained to the valise style only. Your post suggests that maybe some of the valise rafts are in fact designed for above deck stowage so I'll look into it. I'd be wary about installing a cover on a purpose built piece of safety gear but that's a possibility as well. Thanks.

[carlo de leo]

And what about aircrafts life rafts? They are easy to stow. Anybody with experience on this?
I mean if for practical purposes is a safe alternative, I believe Coast Guards and other entities would not consider legal, but would be OK to use for safety?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by carlo de leo

And what about aircrafts life rafts? They are easy to stow. Anybody with experience on this?

I mean if for practical purposes is a safe alternative, I believe Coast Guards and other entities would not consider legal, but would be OK to use for safety?

Aircraft life rafts are all over the place.
Ones I used to rent from Ft Pierce Jet Center were one man and contained nothing, just the raft and it had nothing like a boats life raft with water ballasts and over head covers etc.
However it would fit inside of the cockpit with me, and I carried a ditch bag and two two quart canteens full of water.
I would say it would be far less useful than a dinghy.
Even large life rafts on Commercial aircraft are I think primarily floatation devices and not “systems” meant for survival Like it seems a good offshore marine raft is.

[hellosailor]

Aircraft life rafts are mainly designed to be LIGHT WEIGHT so they don't consume lots of fuel. Or cabin space.

IIRC you may be able to drill around Doug Ritter's excellent web site, EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE - Outdoors Gear, Survival Equipment Review & Survival Information , and find discussions of aircraft-vs-boat liferafts that were in an article posted there maybe ten years back.

[Sdwcheney]

as to use of SPOT in mid ocean i found this: Here is an example of one from last year: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/ma...c-competition/

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any further questions, feel free to respond to this email or contact me at the number listed below.

Best regards,

Emily Thompson
Emergency Operations Manager

[Emouchet]

an Inreach is not a spot device. Inreach provides bidirectionnal texting, not spot.

[Sdwcheney]

Please check out the SPOT X! But the point is: If you can expect to be rescued within 6 to 8 hours, even in the mid-Atlantic, you may not want to spend $xxxx on a life raft that you might never use.