Doctor Wars-total sunblock vs Vitamin D health?

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Canadian with pale English skin.


My recipe:

• avoid sunburn as much as humanly possible
• sun-blocking clothing, hat,
• sunscreen on long-exposed bits like face, hands, feet
• controlled exposure when possible, to build up a tan
• eat real food as much as possible (stuff that didn't go through a factory); you'll get enough D. Supplementary D if advised

This has kept us happy and healthy, even through Canadian winters.

Another thumbs up for this recipe.


And I'm not fair skinned at all. Darker than average Floridian.

[Allied39]

In the early days of sunblock, just at the begining of it being forced upon us masses, I heard an interview.

A sunscreen producer rep was asked if the chemicals or a combination of the chemicals could be carcinogenic? He replied yes, thats a possibility, they don't know yet...but it's worth the risk.

Hmmm, thought I. Then I spent 10 minutes just trying to pronounce the myriad of chemicals that make up sunblock.

I came to the conclusion that I have no interest in sunblock. I wear cotton shirts and a hat when in heavy sun exposure....and still end up somewhat bronzed.....and am happy with that.

I shudder as I watch children literally covered with sunscreen, parents slopping on a whole cup full of sunblock on a small liquid (or poison) absorbing body. Not good. Not bright...but not my kid,,,do what you want to yours.

My daughter is 12. from day one we extremely rarely used sunblock on her and to this day it is still a very rare occurence.

We dressed her well, hat and saw value in shade.

All the above is what we do, but an important note is that we are not naturally pale. We are not super pale, white freckled folks....you know what I mean. If we were, we may have made different choices.

Nope, not responding to the know it all"s who will freak out and go into attack mode.

[Minggat]

I discovered astaxanthin a few years ago. Helps to reduce my tendency to burn. Full time livaboard, so easy for me to see the difference.


Fair skinned boy with plenty of sun damage from my youth.

[keyway]

Yep wear your hat and sunglasses and don’t let your feet get burnt. Coverup before you get fried. So Dockdoc I’m wondering how do you cover up just your toenails??

[Rorzech]

I am also a winter sun bather . I can get 60,000 IU Vitimin "D" in 20 minutes with shirt off ! just stay out of the wind !

[bcboomer]

Originally Posted by keyway

So Dockdoc I’m wondering how do you cover up just your toenails??

Nail polish?

[toddster8]

A couple of things I thought about that article:
I wonder if the author deliberately picked an "opponent" with weak arguments in order to make his sound better.
The only adverse effect that he mentioned was melanoma - not a word about other kinds of skin damage.
And soaking up as much sun as possible at 45°N is a whole different thing from doing it below 30°.

[sailorladd]

Moderation in everything is as good as any doctor....

Prevention is also very effective before a cure is necessary...I spent many years sailing around the tropics, and have spent the last 30 years living in Hawaii, completely oblivious to what the sun was doing to my sometimes naked body in the sun...

Then I was diagnosed with skin cancer on my face, had it surgically removed, but it migrated into my neck, had that removed (a big op) and did the usual 6 weeks radiation etc, now I try to keep out of the sun as much as is necessary... especially in the middle of summer (brutal in Hawaii)

If one has to work outdoors, in hot sunshine it makes sense to cover up with cool, light clothing, even long sleeved shirts, and to get your daily intake of the sun's vitamin D, why not allow yourself a certain "safe" time in the sun usually hours BEFORE or AFTER the directly above noon day heat

Again, moderation is the best of both worlds... I am happy to report than now after 5 months of my last radiation treatment I appear to have beaten the cancer, but I learned my lesson and want to pass on the warning...

[refuge]

Humans need sunlight to live and have a strong immune system.

I’ve never used sunblock and never put the chemicals on my skin to be baked in by sunlight. Not for my kids either. But I don’t let them get burned. Clothing works surprisingly well at preventing burns.

We take vitamin D daily as our food (even organic) lacks the nutrients it had 50 years ago. And we make sure we get moderate regular sunlight on our bodies. On the face and forearms I don’t think is adequate. You gotta feel the heat on your torso. In the winter we go tanning every two weeks or so to emulate the sun.

Haven’t had so much as the sniffles in OVER 20 years. No illnesses at all. As a kid if we got sick my old man would say go out and get a tan. The sun would kill a cold in a day.

The thought of rubbing mass produced chemicals (sunblock) into my skin is frightening.

There was a lady in the UK who almost killed her son by hiding him from the sun. She was paranoid from all the fear mongering. She basted her boy in sunblock and wouldn’t let him outside. He got deathly ill. After seeing over 10 doctors only one had the smarts to say you’re killing your child by keeping him from the sun.

He prescribed direct sunlight to the horror of the mom and the kid was cured in a day. Just like that. Vitamin D deficiency was killing him.

Sunlight is good for you. Just don’t get burned.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by refuge

... I’ve never used sunblock and never put the chemicals on my skin to be baked in by sunlight. Not for my kids either. But I don’t let them get burned. Clothing works surprisingly well at preventing burns....

UPF is the rating system used for apparel. It’s similar to SPF (Sun Protection Factor), the rating system used for sunscreen products.
SPF pertains only to a sunscreen's effectiveness against UVB rays, considered to be the more damaging type of light.
UPF, though, gauges a fabric's effectiveness against both ultraviolet A (UVA) and ultraviolet B (UVB) light. When you shop, things are relatively simple: Look for a higher UPF rating number in order to get better sun protection. Any fabric that allows less than 2 percent UV transmission is labeled UPF 50+.
Much sun-protective clothing has a Lycra look and feel because synthetic fabrics offer a higher UPF. Clothing certified as having an Ultraviolet Protection Factor of 15 →50 features tight weaves, chemical sunscreen agents, better absorption of sun radiation (darker colors do best), and better protection than other fabrics when wet.
Fabrics rated below UPF 15 are not considered UV-protective. For comparison, a typical cotton T-shirt has a UPF rating of about 5.
Remember that filtered sun can still damage your skin, so protect yourself on cloudy days, too.

[Elzaar]

Just throwing in some more random observations probably most relevant to any fellow Gingers

I have eight stitches in my arm as I type for the squamous cell they cut out last week, and 14 stitches removed from my neck the week before that for the Basal cells (second set at that location in ten years). I also have the poka dots all over my face from freezing off the pre cancers. That's just this go round. I get a few pre cancers zapped pretty much every year and had a previous squamous and basal cut out about 20 and 25 years ago.

While that may sound bad, low Vitamin D levels may or may not be part of the reason I lost feeling in three toes on each foot after surgeries and in my left fingers after some neck vertebrae issues. My Vitamin D levels were about 13% and IIRC they were supposed to be at least 30%. I live in Seattle area, so sunlight is always lacking.

My thoughts? Well, they upped my Vitamin D levels in to normal ranges by giving me horse -sized supplements and having me take 10,000 IU every day. So the supplements empirically worked for me and continue to work as years later I am still in acceptable ranges continuing to take 10,000 IU per day. The lack of Vitamin D definitely shows up in my mood, hand steadiness, and probably in nerve recuperation. I've never been great about sunblock and have had some incredible sunburns in my life, but all those cancers have been on the left side either arm, neck, or face - meaning they are more likely than not from sitting in the driver's seat of my car for 35 years (I spent several hours a day driving for work) - not from going to the beach and getting blisters on my shoulders and back (where docs have never even frozen a precancer). So if you are going the sunblock route you can't just think "boat or beach day." My copious time in the desert as a teen and in the Army would say that clothing protected me from sun burn like no sunblock ever did.

My overall subjective conclusions - skin cancer is caused by continual exposure to sun over a long time period - not by sunburns. Genetics have far more to do with it than anything else - all of my siblings regularly have precancers removed even though only two of six of us have the classic ginger features while all six have fair skin. Most people without those genetics rarely have any skin cancer issues. Vitamin D is essential to many parts of humans. Melanoma is a real concern, but very few people get it whereas a lot of people are impacted by low Vitamin D levels. Supplements work, but I have no doubt fresh vegetables and organic meats are also essential. I use a SAD light in winter and occassionally sun tan if I am heading to the tropics and I definitely feel better when i do. Honestly, I am not a fan of sun block, but when I do use it I use high quality sunblocks and generally only on my face and ears. Clothing works better and keeps you cooler.

If I had to choose between low Vitamin E and associated health consequences or skin cancer, I would risk skin cancer every time. Melanoma is extermely rare and the rest are inconveniences. The physical and mental risks from low Vitamin D continue to roll out ... neurological damage and depression, poor healing, possibly MS and other brain disorders ... Personally I feel the best approach is be smart about sun exposure, but still get sun and eat healthy

Just my opinions. I could be wrong.