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View Poll Results: Do you have some kind of sailing certification?
Yes, I have a certification. 146 70.87%
No, I have no certification. 60 29.13%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2019, 09:38   #91
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

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Originally Posted by jmorrison146 View Post
A USCG license requires documentation of considerable sea time, a complete physical exam, three professional recommendations, a background check, and extensive testing on a dozen topics. To say that it's just a piece of paper is insulting to everyone that has earned one.

Unfortunately, the USCG license doesn't require you have ever docked so much as a Boston Whaler. It doesn't require that you have ever picked out a vessel's running lights at sea. It doesn't require that you have ever pressed the transmit key on a radio. I'm pretty sure it doesn't require you to know the difference between a beat and a run, or understand why you don't want to pass close to weather of an overcanvased boat in heavy air. And the USCG license is really serious stuff!


Now let's talk about the state safety certificates... or maybe let's not. I mean, you can get one without EVER stepping foot on a boat. They represent 16 hours or so of learning (containing, what, 1 hour of good stuff?) with a test at completion and 99% of that learning is lost in 30 days.


ASA is marginally better. But requiring multi-thousand dollar certifications that will take a sailor from zero to ICC in a week but not have a reasonable "challenge" approach for those who have sailed around the world? Really? Would you lend your boat to a person who had taken a 7 day course 5 years ago as their only on-water experience? Would you rather have that person, or a person who had been sailing extensively for the last 20 years, but never taken a "certified" course?
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:17   #92
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

Yes, I have the USCG "6-Pack" license that I got when the United States Power Squadron that I belonged to had a special deal with "Sea School" for the training and licensing.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:56   #93
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

I am 75 and have been sailing for 60 years. This is a neat discussion. I am very impressed with everyone's qualification. I sail on the Great Lakes and love it. I had my boat inspected for safety by the US Power Squnadron and was told it was the best safety equipped boat they have ever inspected. They made me an Administrative Officer.

I started sailing on a Star. My first 10 years were on a wooden sloop. I have used a caulking iron and know more about varnish than I ever wanted to know. but, you have to learn somewhere.

I have no certifications.
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Old 06-09-2019, 13:34   #94
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

I have USCG 50 ton master. 34 years sailing on Great Lakes, Atlantic & Gulf. 9’ Boston whaler squall through 38’ sloop. Also have driven 68’ steel excursion boat. Agree USCG ticket has benefit... but only when accompanied by appropriate experience.
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Old 06-09-2019, 17:46   #95
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

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Unfortunately, the USCG license doesn't require you have ever docked so much as a Boston Whaler. It doesn't require that you have ever picked out a vessel's running lights at sea. It doesn't require that you have ever pressed the transmit key on a radio. I'm pretty sure it doesn't require you to know the difference between a beat and a run, or understand why you don't want to pass close to weather of an overcanvased boat in heavy air. And the USCG license is really serious stuff!


Now let's talk about the state safety certificates... or maybe let's not. I mean, you can get one without EVER stepping foot on a boat. They represent 16 hours or so of learning (containing, what, 1 hour of good stuff?) with a test at completion and 99% of that learning is lost in 30 days.


ASA is marginally better. But requiring multi-thousand dollar certifications that will take a sailor from zero to ICC in a week but not have a reasonable "challenge" approach for those who have sailed around the world? Really? Would you lend your boat to a person who had taken a 7 day course 5 years ago as their only on-water experience? Would you rather have that person, or a person who had been sailing extensively for the last 20 years, but never taken a "certified" course?


Do your homework. USCG licensing requires considerable documented sea time on appropriate tonnage or horsepower and environment (oceans, near coastal, inland rivers, etc) for initial and renewal.

For example: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/N...mc5_15_web.pdf
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Old 06-09-2019, 18:31   #96
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

Experience plus USCG Masters 50 ton with 50 ton sail endorsement.
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Old 06-09-2019, 18:51   #97
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

Cannot speak for others, but yes I have a USCG Merchant Marine Officer License...
Most just call it a USCG Captains license. Originally 100 tons boosted up to
500 tons near coastal on my last issue.

To qualify to sit for the original exam.

I had to have 720 days, documented sea time, which I attained as an instructor and charter skipper and just fun sailing. But, I could not put AS CAPT. on the application, I had to note it as CREW.

Plus references, finger prints, and a ton of other documents, just to take the
U.S.C.G written that was at the U.S.C.G offices in L.A / Long beach Harbor area.

There were several different evolutions, many of which you had to be in the
90 % to pass. Some were 70 % . There are several separate tests on different
subjects and if you did not pass the section that you were working on, you did
no further testing that day. You could return the next and pass the failed section. and continue with the remaining sections.. If you failed again, you could retest in 30 days.

That was one full day of tests, then I return the next day, for the coastal piloting navigation section. That took 90 % to pass. I passed them all and
earned my USCG Captains License and received the license when I finished up
with the Navigation Section.

Now, I needed the license to skipper a boat for hire. No license is required for
non revenue , just for fun, operating a motor or sailing vessel.

This was in Calif, and no state license is required for boating or sailing. I like that some type of vessel certification is required for every ones safety, crew and passengers.

I had to renew my U.S.C. G License every 5 years.... currency and some time testing.

My last issue was issue # 5 , and I am no longer working under the auspices of
my license. Now, it is just Erica and I bare boat sailing , but some of the previous
cruising grounds have been, Mexico, Southern Calf Coast, Australia, Tahiti,
Tonga, The BVI, French West Indies, the Windwards and Grenadines, and skippering a motor vessel up the River Shannon in Ireland.

It has been a grand and wonderful adventure, super fun, and great people .
Life was fantastic with many decades as a Charter Capt, and Flotilla Leader, as well as just fun cruises .

Now, if you wish to earn a U.S.C.G license just to have one, , you can go for what they call a SIX PACK, which is 360 days at sea documented time but you are limited to SIX PASSENGERS for hire.

Also, you will have gained a lot of experience in those 360 days of documented time,
and studied, and taken the effort to take and pass the U.S.C.G. exam.

My documented time was from the computer files of the Sailing Club, and their recommendation. Otherwise keep a log and have some one that can verify
your sea time .

There you go. Basically, if you do not intend on working for hire, you do not need
the U.S.C.G License. But, it may come in handy as to proof of qualifications when
bare boating world wide. Depends on the cruising area and country.

Regardless , for your own achievement and knowledge , license or no, you might take the time, to go thru a U.S.C.G lic. preparatory class, and you will find that the information learned is really very important. It takes a few weeks, once a week but your knowledge and seaman ship and being safe at sea will be a hundred times ahead of the board walk boatswains strapped to the dock side bar stool.

Plus, it is a totally fun experience and the knowledge gained is amazing.

Never can tell where that license might take you......there is a wonderful
world of great places to sail and people to meet, and magical memories that
will be with you forever.

What ever your choice, fair winds and following seas
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Old 06-09-2019, 21:55   #98
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

It would be interesting to know the percentage of Yes and No votes by nationality/sailing area.


I suspect that a high proportion of Yes are US based and a high proportion of No votes are other nationalities.


I also suspect that the Yes/No percentage may be skewed with people with qualifications more likely to actually vote.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:23   #99
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorrison146 View Post
Do your homework. USCG licensing requires considerable documented sea time on appropriate tonnage or horsepower and environment (oceans, near coastal, inland rivers, etc) for initial and renewal.

For example: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/N...mc5_15_web.pdf
I have done my homework. I have mostly filled out the application. I've decided that maintaining it while still working a real job is too much of a challenge (sea time is a problem to keep up), but will probably get it when I retire. As a former naval officer (and USNA grad), the test part doesn't worry me much.

Yes, a LOT of "documented" sea time ("documented" requires you to say you did it on your boat, or get the person/people you did time with to sign off -- my time will be 60% on my boat and the rest from my Dad. I have plenty of other folks who could sign, but found using me and him made it simple). And a very challenging test, if you don't already know that stuff.

My point is that you don't actually have to drive or even be involved. You could be chief in charge of rigging fishing nets, or be the cook, and never enter the wheelhouse. Take a rules course, pass the test, get your license, and THEN go learn how to drive.

To be clear, I'm not dissing the USCG license. But there is a harder skills test to get you driver's license!
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:44   #100
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

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Kind of a wierd attitude for someone who has completed and obtained so many "certifications", isn't it? Surely you see the point of there being minimum standards for taking part in professions and activities that put the public at risk, and of accepted certifications to indicate that someone has met those standards. The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

For each of your many "certifications", wasn't there the slightest moment of satisfaction in successfully passing the tests, and an enduring pride that there is incontrovertible proof of your accomplishments?
I understand the sentiments of jms.

There are many master mariners that are lousy Seamen!

Getting all the certifications in Marine College was an expensive investment and brought no satisfaction until it started paying off.

At least in University while also chasing pieces of paper, you are exposed to an environment of curiosity and self study, that prepares you very well to challenge the lightweight Marine Deck officer syllabus.....But I did enjoy their library in those days!

Now with online research, you carry that library in your smart phone.
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Old 07-09-2019, 16:18   #101
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

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The people behind every medical malpractice death (in the US anyway) has some kind of medical education certificate and state license to practice. In 99.9% of all airplane crashes there was a licensed pilot at the controls. The majority of fraud cases involving real estate transactions are committed by licensed individuals. Many bad hairdos are done by licensed barbers and beauticians.

I don't put much stock in the fact that professional or recreational licensing guarantees anything. I hold an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate with four type ratings, a Flight Engineer Certificate (turbojet), a Flight Instructor Certificate (instrument, multi-engine), a Ground Instructor Certificate (advanced & instrument), an FAA designation (Airline Check Airman), a USCG Master (power & sail), a state power boat certificate, Radiotelephone and Marine Commercial Radio Operator licenses and a Real Estate Broker license. Oh, and a Bachelor of Science degree from a accredited university. None of it means squat when you climb in the cockpit, boat or airplane. They are all just pieces of paper, but some EU countries think they turn you into an instant Ace. All they really do is get the charter company and their insurers off the hook if you screw up.
You couldn't be more right, I'm a kiwi, I just sail around coastal NZ, have done for close to 50 years, the way I see it, it's down to the individual, what sort of person they, learn or die, sitting in a classroom ain't gunna help.
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Old 07-09-2019, 16:39   #102
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

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Originally Posted by Old fella View Post
You couldn't be more right, I'm a kiwi, I just sail around coastal NZ, have done for close to 50 years, the way I see it, it's down to the individual, what sort of person they, learn or die, sitting in a classroom ain't gunna help.
Exactly that,
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:49   #103
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

I got a USCG "6 pack" license before sailing my boat across the Atlantic. I did it primarily to discipline myself about mastering the rules of the road and the other subjects covered on the test. I had also heard that some European countries require a certificate of competency. I sailed the boat from one end of the Med to the other for 4 years and cannot recall ever being asked for the license. But still think it was a worthwhile thing to do.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:22   #104
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

Sooo, you all, are saying that some self absorbed hero, with no training , or qualifications, or licensing should climb to the left seat of an airliner, or any aircraft,
shove the throttles forward, pull back, rotate, lift off, gear and flaps up, and be in command of an aircraft full of passengers, or even one passenger with zip qualifications and zero certifications .

You rant that The licenses, flight hours, and ratings, and testing, and check rides don't mean jack daniels and are not necessary. Good thinking and reasoning there. Let us all know how that works when you join everyone on board as the planes impacts the planet and everyone is in that smoking hole at the end of the runway.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same B.S. on this board concerning U.S.C.G License for being in command of a motor or sailing vessel for hire .

In the U.S.A that means you acquired your documented sea time, and passed the required tests and earned your certification. And I mean earn, with real sea time which due to the 720 days would have to be working professionally. I have done it, ?
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I also had a parallel career in flying aircraft. 35 years , 6500 hrs Total Time. Flight instructor, charter pilot, corporate pilot, and Air Combat fighter pilot instructor. Most of my total time was HAND FLYING many, many different air craft over 35 years.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat U.S.A. Everything was real but the bullets.

Real flying: I.P ( Instructor pilot ) Air Combat full on 1 vs 1..5 and 6 dog fights. Before I retired in my early 60's, I was flying as an I.P for Air Combat USA. With Air Combat I logged 2500 hrs in the SF-260 , that was 17 years of yanking and banking and rolling and pulling.

This was not flying straight and level shiney side up reading the paper while
cruising along on auto pilot.

Air combat flying included formation take offs, formation flying, some times formation landings. Plus in the air, gun sight tracking ,BFM ( basic fighter maneuvers ), and ACM ( Air Combat Maneuvering ) in full on 5 and 6 G dogfights . Think Top Gun.

Posts here demean an Instructor or pilot in command having all of his ratings and hours logged. None of the counts in their estimation. I believe You need experience, ability and the certifications.

or...

Brilliant, no training or certification and you would be strapping on a fighter plane
with a non qualified person. That is excellent reasoning. What likely would
be the end game , you would be 'hamburger hair '.

My air combat training was by F-16, F-18, F-14- F-15 drivers., some Top Gun and Red Flag Drivers. No simulators.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professional U.S.C.G Licensed Capt. United States Coast Guard lic.

And for all of you who put those of us down, us who gained the required 720 days at sea documented sea time and experience that is far beyond what most boat owners have. Apparently, you think that professional captains do not need to be certified either. They do not need the sea time and experience and testing. Yes, they do.

I will tell you why.

What I do see out there on the water, and it is getting much more prevalent and does not feel good to us old school knowledgeable sailors. Actually it is sad for us to witness.

There is there is a great majority of sail and motor vessel operators that have nearly zero seamanship and even with sailing vessels no ability or desire to sail, or or navigate without GPS and Auto Pilots.

Free Country and this is 2019. Do what you want.

Those on sailing vessels, mostly catamarans now, they dont even raise sails, they are driving Sea going condo maximals, both engines ahead full.

We get put down by these people for our actual SAILING in the BVI ( this was our 17th two week SAILING VACATION in the British Virgin Island ), and the 20th in 35 years in the caribbean. Same goes for austraila, south pacific, mexico and the
coastal sailing off southern california.

They put us down for tacking and sailing, the BVI, and only using the engine to charge the batteries since the mono hulls we sail do not have generators or air conditioning,

They demean those who have earned their captains licenses, in order to
take passengers for hire.

The BVI used to be a cruising ground for sailors and seamen, those days are over.
We just returned from BVI sailing vacation # 17, and 85 to 90% of the boats
we saw, monohulls, sailing cats, and power cats were motoring., Auto pilots
and GPS engaged, , and partying down with drinks in hand, and many times with no one on watch .


As many here have stated, real sailors are a dying breed, They are correct, that is obvious from just witnessing the boats out there making passages. Seamanship and
sailing is ancient history.

We prefer and are pleased to be in the latter category of happy sea and wind loving ancient mariners. And yes we know days are numbered.

You and us, are the few remaining of that vanishing dying breed that are put down by
the 21st century new style water world Disney land floating five star boaters.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other wise, if your are part of the 15 % who are real knowledgeable sailors and seaman and navigators, and actually love the wind and sailing, my pleasure to know and salute you, we are among the few and yes, the new wave folks are correct, we sailors are a dying breed. But, it has been one heck of a great and rewarding good
time.

OUT !
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:12   #105
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Re: Do You Have a Sailing/Boating Certificate or License?

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Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77 View Post

time.

OUT !
LOL. Thank you, .......great instructional primer on how to Rant

I think the point a few of us are making is that it is not the piece of paper you aquire that makes you competent, but your attitude on safe procedures and a continued desire to learn and improve in the field.

Instructors can be fallible, full of ego and sexually or racially bias.

There are other ways to learn by self study and apprenticeship if you are serious
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