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MarkJ · 12-01-2008, 13:25

Do US Brokers lie about whats in stock?

One of our Australian magazines “Cruising Helmsman” had a feature article in November about buying a boat overseas and had a pretty damming line or 2 about US brokers “Many bargains turned out to be non-existent boats.”

Do brokerages in the US have a few extra boats on their lists to make their brokerages look full?

Then how does one work out what is actually available?

The article also noted that many emails were left unanswered leaving the opinion other boats might not exist or they broker only wants to deal with those close to hand so avoiding ‘tire kickers’.

Do brokers have extra ‘phantom’ boats on listings to be able to show what a market price is for a particular boat?

Your advice and thoughts much appreciated

Mark

**Pblais** · 12-01-2008, 14:39

Quote:

Do brokerages in the US have a few extra boats on their lists to make their brokerages look full?

Can't see why they would do that. You can't make money from a boat you can't sell. Most people don't care how many boats a broker has. Would you? Unresponsive yacht brokers are just like real estate sales people. 90% of the boats are sold by only 10% of the brokers. Some only work when they feel like. There is always the misconception that you could retire and only work a few hours a week and get rich selling expensive yachts.

Quote:

Do brokers have extra ‘phantom’ boats on listings to be able to show what a market price is for a particular boat?

If a sales person thinks they can make money telling lies to customers then they can't be selling many boats. People can tell when the person they are dealing with is not being truthful and when they are working hard to provide the service and information they really want. Brokers that might take part in such a hair brain scheme can't be eating regularly. Good brokers have to do a good job and work hard to do well. It's not easy getting people to part with a huge chuck of money.

Quote:

broker only wants to deal with those close to hand so avoiding ‘tire kickers’

All brokers get a lot of tire kickers. The same goes with cars and homes too. Tire kickers are always close at hand. For the most part they are people that like looking at boats and have no intention of buying one. They like to play I know more about boats than you do games too. You can't always tell who is and who is not a tire kicker. Most brokers are going to test you a bit to find out. If you become perceived as just tire kicking they probably will tell you good bye. Most all will at least show a boat and talk with you to find out first. They can't tell through magic who will buy a boat. You can't sell boats if you somehow never return calls or emails thinking they all never would have bought anything anyway. I suppose phantom boat brokers don't need to return calls given they don't have any boats. Probably saves everyone a lot of time

If you are buying or selling and you find a poor broker then get another one. Most brokerages have more than one broker. They are a dime a dozen so you might as well get one that works hard and sells lots of boats. Those are the ones that are good and the ones you will tell your friends to see.

**roverhi** · 12-01-2008, 14:40

On line listings may not get updated as fast you'd like. Sometimes a listing is sold or expired and not expunged. Could be a case of inattention or purposeful attempt to pad their listings. You need to call the broker before you get on a plane to look at a boat. As far as answering emails, a request from an overseas buyer may not bring joy to the eyes of the broker. We get a lot of scam artists from offshore trying to rip us off. Also, a buyer from 5,000 miles away would not be called a hot prospect. The odds of them hopping on an airplane to fly to the US to buy a boat aren't great. Spending any time answering these emails may not be high on the list of a salesmans things to do list. It takes a lot of time to comprehensively answer emails, time that the salesman may think better spent elsewhere, even if that time is spent going sailing. May not be the greatest way to do business but not uncommon.

So yes, some brokers may have listings that aren't kept current. May or may not be intentional.

Aloha
Peter O.

**Pblais** · 12-01-2008, 14:44

Quote:

Also, a buyer from 5,000 miles away would not be called a hot prospect. The odds of them hopping on an airplane to fly to the US to buy a boat aren't great.

Not tue. When I sold my last boat they got a lot of calls from Canada. The weak dollar makes US boats a great deal. Brokers don't care where you live.

**irwinsailor** · 12-01-2008, 14:46

I have sent several emails about boats that were priced very very well and many times IF I would get a reply the boat seemed to be a leader to try to sell me something else.

**roverhi** · 12-01-2008, 15:04

Glad you got lucky, but I'll still stick by what I said. For years was a realestate broker in paradise, got lots of enquiries from offshore. Really got burned out spending hours corresponding with these tire kickers for NO, zilch, zero return. If the buyers weren't ready to get on an airplane to fly in, they were just wasting my time.

Aloha
Peter O.

scallywag · 12-01-2008, 15:11

If you are serious about a boat and the broker knows it is trashed, why hove you fly in to take a look at the boat? If the broker suggests another boat, he/she might be trying to do you a favor. I have seen many a cheap boat that was trashed. It would take a lot of money just to move it to a new port.

John

AnchorageGuy · 12-01-2008, 15:17

as the owner of a Brokerage for many years in the Annapolis area I have never heard of any of these practices. we dealt with many more tire kickers than serious buyers but treated them all the same because you just never knew when that tire kicker turned the corner and became a serious buyer. I personally sold a few under those circumstances. I had a few customers that I showed boats to every weekend for YEARS and guess what? More than a few eventually bought. Boats are like real estate in that they are multi listed and can be sold by any broker. If I have 30 boats in my listings and none fit your needs I either tell you to see me later or explore listings other than mine. Guess what I and most other brokers I have known will do? I worked with virtually EVERY brokerage firm in Maryland and a few in New York and Virginia and I can tell you for absolute certain that these practices were not part of doing business. Don't believe everything you read in the media. There job is to sell copy and not necessarily tell the truth. Sure there are bad and shady brokers. There are shady real estate people and politicians. I will probably get a PM for that. The shady ones don't last long because the word gets out quickly and the other brokers cut you off. Then you are out of business.

**Pblais** · 12-01-2008, 15:24

Quote:

Really got burned out spending hours corresponding with these tire kickers for NO, zilch, zero return.

As near as I can tell that is what selling is. Some folks just don't have the time it takes to sell.

AnchorageGuy · 12-01-2008, 15:31

Thats what I'm talkin about

camaraderie · 12-01-2008, 15:45

I've never had any experience of a broker not having a boat that was listed. We are all familiar with the hyperbole that accompanies some listings and the omissions of fact as well. And I have had the experience of brokers using a used boat listing to try to switch the buyer to a "better deal" on a new boat that they represented. I've also had the experience of lack of any follow up or effort from a number of brokers.
But by and large, I've found that the broker's who have been around awhile at independent brokerages (without new boat franchises) try to be helpful and knowledgeable while making the best case for the products they have to sell which after all.. is their job.

Pelagic · 12-01-2008, 17:41

In any business or profession there are good and bad.
“Some” yacht brokers are like the worst kind of car salesman: They do the least amount of work, in order to make a sale yet Exaggerate, Omit, Lie and Bribe surveyors to accomplish that.
They prey on the inexperienced and I have noticed where the is a high concentration of boats like in Miami or Ft Lauderdale, you will find those slimy bast**ds plying their trade.

**Alan Wheeler** · 12-01-2008, 17:55

I haven't told any of you guy's yet, but I took up a position late last year as a Boat broker for a Local Brokerage. I can't speak (and if I could I wouldn't anyway) of other Brokers tacktics, but for me, and I believe the other four Brokers in the office, we have the following credits.
First and foremost, we love boats. Don't care what type, size, power, we just love boats. When I see a boat to list for the first time, I just love walking over and around it and seeing the potential if she's a little ruff or oogling if she is flash.
Secondly, I work for both parties. I want the best deal I can get for the Owner, (in my favour commission wise) but I also work for the buyer as well. Why? becuase what I have found is, buying a boat is more than buying a car and different to buying a house. If you work for both parties fairly, you get return business. It seems (at least here) that many people are also fanaticle about boats and seem to buy and sell just to get that special one. Plus many are also using boats as stepping stones to their ulitimate dream. They start small so as to learn and then step up. Many stories, all different. But the result is, you get return customers. Build a relationship and you could have one customer buy through you three or more times over a number of years.
Thirdly, tire kicker or not, they are not going to walk through the door, or call up if they are not remotly interested to begin with. We don't mind tirekickers. They one day may just take the boat. Everyone is a potential buyer and should be treated as such. They may simply be unsure of what they want.
I am using the experiance I had as a lesson in how I want to represent owners and buyers. First off, I was one of the tire kickers. We were not buying for a further 5 yrs. I told the broker that and that we just wanted to see a few boats to get an idea. He said no problem. We fell in love with a boat and sold our home to buy it. 3 months (not 5 years) later, we owned a boat.

**Pblais** · 12-01-2008, 18:02

Quote:

Secondly, I work for both parties. I want the best deal I can get for the Owner, (in my favour commission wise) but I also work for the buyer as well. Why? because what I have found is, buying a boat is more than buying a car and different to buying a house. If you work for both parties fairly, you get return business.

I know you might be thinking I'm just rooting for the home team, but sometimes we get it right the first time Here at CF. This is what making a living selling boats takes. Meet these kind of people if you want to buy a boat. Not sure I would fly to New Zealand, but what the heck the trip home would be memorable. Something to tell the grandkids - eh what!