Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

[Bash]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

This only proves you have big balls...cant belive you left the grill mounted...DVC

My grill is a permanent fixture, even offshore. In heavy weather Wonderblond adds a bungy to keep the lid closed. Might this be a Hunter thing?

Fond memories from my beer-can days of firing up the grill during the last downwind leg. (This was a pursuit-race format where we raced back down the channel to our yacht club.)

Nothing teaches the boat snobs a better lesson than being passed by a Hunter with its chute up and steaks sizzling at the same time.

[zeehag]

one can listen to opinions of others or one can just go do it in whatever they feel like doing it in......what level of ability have you???? are you comfortable in a hunter or are you comfortable in some other panned and slammed boat\// i am comfortable in a solid cruiser that others seem to think SHOULD sail to weather but i am happy doesnt so do --- i like cruisers built to last and built to handle anything.... i have one of those.. is not on anyone's allegedly approved and safe list-- but was designed with cruising in mind. i like this. is all good. sail what ye feel comfortable in sailing. that is the boat you will do well in, not something rated for wtf by someone who has some other agenda in mind. after all, who is sailing the boat-- you or the opinionated ones ye ask???

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by malbert73

You must be absolutely kidding. In our annapolis and surrounding PHRF fleets ALL non-spinnaker boats sail DDW if that's the course. i guarantee there's good racing skippers there. Even the spin boats sail very deep angles. The ONLY exception to this is whan boats can plane (like sportboats) or perhaps in very light wind. When I raced Lasers, 420s, and FJs in college we all sailed DDW in windward/leeward courses, and these boats can plane. When I raced 505 dinghies we'd only heat up onto planing angles above certain wind speeds. Below that you'd go faster but get downwind slower than near DDW boats. I guarantee no hunter is faster downwind angles. Granted, while cruising most folks hate DDW, but that's not what this post said. If you have a good whisker pole DDW is fastest.

The reason for swept back spreaders and no backstay is simple- you can carry a high roach main for more area, or you can have a bendy mast you can rake to flatten the sail to go faster upwind. Ironic that the vast majority of Hunters are equipped with the in mast furling system with a nonbendy cruising mast. Nothing wrong with that, but unless you have the conventional roached main the B&R rig is a waste.

Please list the other reasons for which ALL boats are served best by having swept spreaders?

I don't remember anyone saying that. I started the discussion about swept back spreaders by saying that some see it as a serious flaw, including some very fine racers with some very serious PHRF chops.

You CAN sail my boat DDW -- with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But I'm not ready for that. I jybe downwind, which I prefer anyway ... and I don't race my boat. I know someone who has the same boat I did who won PHRF west coast FL boat of the year, jybing downwind -- non-spinnaker class.

I started it, and I also said that I hate sailing DDW -- it's hot in FL, and it's boring. It would have its advantages here some days in February, though!

[zeehag]

ddw is a different animal in a ketch as the mizzen doesnt overshadow the jib and is easily managed sans poling . is one of the advantages of split rig in weather.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

Everyone in the Caribe 1500 left their grill mounted..........my mistake was to leave the grill cover on!!! LOL

The question now is "Did you win the Caribe 1500 in your Hunter while fighting 25 ft seas"?...DVCLOL

[islandplanet]

If you are planning to buy a bluewater boat and you haven't been cruising previously, why not hire someone like John Neal for his consulting service?
Mahina Expedition - Offshore Cruising Instruction
The small fee pales in comparison with a poor boat buying decision.

The beauty of using someone like John is that he does not have any financial interest in what you buy. He and Amanda have cruised 100's of thousands of miles and have a pretty good handle on what works and what doesn't. In the interest of full disclosure, I have no affiliation with John or Amanda other than bumping into them a few times and chatting.

We have met people while cruising who are perfectly content with their Hunters. Some have done some pretty impressive passages (IE: Pac NW to Panama, San Francisco to NZ, etc.) Better weather forecasting and planning can reduce the likelihood of any boat being caught in survival conditions. We're supplying a set of cruising sails for a 40.5 that will be headed to Australia in the spring. I'm sure the boat will be fine. Personally I'm not keen on rigs with deeply swept back spreaders. That results in more work for me protecting the sail from chafe, particularly if it has full battens. Traditional cruising routes involve reaching and running.

One of our friends with a fairly new Hunter that lost the rudder told me that Hunter has a 4% rudder failure rate. That would concern me if it's true as most Hunters are sailed more casually. I know that Mike Harker lost his rudder during a circumnavigation. I would look long and hard at the construction of any spade rudder. TPI did a great job building rudders using a composite shaft. If I'm not mistaken they used an inflatable bladder in the middle to force the resin through. Hunter seems to do a very good job of supporting their products and keeping owners happy. There's a lot to be said for that.

There are many schools of thought. Some people prefer a newer production boat over an older more rugged traditional cruising boat. We were very fortunate when we bought our boat as we scored a legendary wonderful cruising boat - an Amel Maramu that had a six figure re-fit right before the previous owner developed health issues. Would we have gone for an Amel Maramu that had not been totally re-fit? Probably not as we couldn't have afforded the refit and we didn't want to go cruising on a boat where most systems and the engine were 30 years old.

We know a couple of people who have cruised Jeanneau's quite successfully including one of our customers, Calou, which had a great trip to the South Pacific and back recently.

As for differences between European and American buyers, I have a theory that Europeans are less swayed by ads in sailing magazines and endorsements than their counterparts across the pond.

Some of the best sources of information about any boat are industry professionals. When we were considering the purchase of the Amel, we spoke to a highly experienced Lloyds certified surveyor that we were socializing with in Thailand at the time. He had surveyed dozens of Amels and highly recommended the boat. Various specialists can tell you about the systems and installations. For instance, an electrician might warn you that a certain European boat cruising cat has inadequately sized AC wiring since the current load in Europe is half as much with 220V as it is here in North America. Experienced mechanics can tell you their impressions of a certain Yanmar versus a certain Volvo, etc. A rigger will usually have his or her opinion about that end of the boat.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Excuse me, but that's a good friend of mine you're bashing there, and he had sound reasons. You know, there's a limit regarding how much you can say about well known people, but if you knew who it was, I think, perhaps, you wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss him as ignorant.

He had a VERY valid point. The type of rig I have can't run downwind using the mainsail. Since I typically sail by myself or with one other person, and given my level of experience, a spinnaker isn't a realistic option.

Hunter, in fact, has stepped away from that type of rig. And he could probably sail circles around most people here and give the rest of them a real run for their money.

You tell um!the nerve of that guy...DVC

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by zeehag

one can listen to opinions of others or one can just go do it in whatever they feel like doing it in......what level of ability have you???? are you comfortable in a hunter or are you comfortable in some other panned and slammed boat\// i am comfortable in a solid cruiser that others seem to think SHOULD sail to weather but i am happy doesnt so do --- i like cruisers built to last and built to handle anything.... i have one of those.. is not on anyone's allegedly approved and safe list-- but was designed with cruising in mind. i like this. is all good. sail what ye feel comfortable in sailing. that is the boat you will do well in, not something rated for wtf by someone who has some other agenda in mind. after all, who is sailing the boat-- you or the opinionated ones ye ask???

There it is.

Pick the boat you want. Have it surveyed. Determine stability, and capsize ratio on the boat you pick. Plan storm tactics for the degree of weather YOU plan to sail in. Then do it.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

There it is.

Pick the boat you want. Have it surveyed. Determine stability, and capsize ratio on the boat you pick. Plan storm tactics for the degree of weather YOU plan to sail in. Then do it.

dont forget to learn to sail also.. helps just a lil bit.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Bash

Nothing teaches the boat snobs a better lesson than being passed by a Hunter with its chute up and steaks sizzling at the same time.

I crossed paths with a 40' cat the past year and we both went onto a reach. I'm sure he was expecting to leave behind that slow Hunter guy. After a hour of slowly falling back he changed course!

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by zeehag

dont forget to learn to sail also.. helps just a lil bit.

details details .............. they always seem to get in the way of stuff

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I don't remember anyone saying that. I started the discussion about swept back spreaders by saying that some see it as a serious flaw, including some very fine racers with some very serious PHRF chops.

You CAN sail my boat DDW -- with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But I'm not ready for that. I jybe downwind, which I prefer anyway ... and I don't race my boat. I know someone who has the same boat I did who won PHRF west coast FL boat of the year, jybing downwind -- non-spinnaker class.

I started it, and I also said that I hate sailing DDW -- it's hot in FL, and it's boring. It would have its advantages here some days in February, though!

Please refer back to s/v illusion's post which I referenced in mine, in which he says no racer would ever sail DDW. Clearly incorrect. Many cruisers prefer not to sail DDW which is a different question or preference, not of speed. In tradewind sailing, DDW sometimes means dead down the ocean swell which in many boats is more comfortable then the yawing experienced with a quartering sea IMHO.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Bash

My grill is a permanent fixture, even offshore. In heavy weather Wonderblond adds a bungy to keep the lid closed. Might this be a Hunter thing?

Fond memories from my beer-can days of firing up the grill during the last downwind leg. (This was a pursuit-race format where we raced back down the channel to our yacht club.)

Nothing teaches the boat snobs a better lesson than being passed by a Hunter with its chute up and steaks sizzling at the same time.

God that would be freakin' awesome!

Steaks for me and my crew and humble pie for the IOR guy...

[Bash]

Originally Posted by islandplanet

One of our friends with a fairly new Hunter that lost the rudder told me that Hunter has a 4% rudder failure rate. That would concern me if it's true as most Hunters are sailed more casually. I know that Mike Harker lost his rudder during a circumnavigation. I would look long and hard at the construction of any spade rudder. TPI did a great job building rudders using a composite shaft. If I'm not mistaken they used an inflatable bladder in the middle to force the resin through. Hunter seems to do a very good job of supporting their products and keeping owners happy. There's a lot to be said for that.

I would question the veracity of that failure rate. Rudders on Hunters are made by Foss Foam, which supplies rudders for a large number of manufacturers. It's illogical that these rudders would break more on Hunters than on the boats of other manufacturers.

I knew Mike Harker, and I've sailed with him on the boat that lost the rudder during his first circumnavigation. That boat was a sister ship of my boat, by the way. Hunter had gone to composite shafts on that model, and the engineers rated them stronger than stainless steel. Unfortunately, a couple boats lost these rudders, and Hunter went back to a stainless shaft on later models (including mine.)

[Polux]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Please refer back to s/v illusion's post which I referenced in mine, in which he says no racer would ever sail DDW. Clearly incorrect. Many cruisers prefer not to sail DDW which is a different question or preference, not of speed. In tradewind sailing, DDW sometimes means dead down the ocean swell which in many boats is more comfortable then the yawing experienced with a quartering sea IMHO.

Racers or anybody that wants to go fast only will sail near DDW on very few cases and always with lots of wind. With weak or medium winds you will lose time. This explains why: